New Yellow Flag Rules?

[pipson]

I never said i dont know the yellow flag rules i just think you should be able to pass lapped riders under a stationary yellow.

In ozzy they do a test over the phone to get your licence and in Jnr Mx in NZ you have to get tested to get a national mnz licence

If passing was allowed the marshal would then have to put a blue flag out as well. The slower rider would then have to watch for you (the faster rider) the other problem (the yelow flag) & most important going around the corner.

[MSTRS:Me]

each club / organiser can have different rules around flags. AMCC, only the yellow is ever waved. Hamptons ride days even has a system where a half rolled red is used to get a specific bike to return to the pits.

Rules are set by MNZ...any club that does different is wrong. One of the reasons I won't ever marshal for AMCC (once was enough for me) - arrogant tossers that make things up on the spot and will not listen to anyone.
That is not to say that MNZ are right. Just the rules are set by them to be followed.
A ride day is not usually under MNZ, so they can do what they like. But it's my opinion that they should use the standard rules.

[FROSTY:Me]

each club / organiser can have different rules around flags. AMCC, only the yellow is ever waved. Hamptons ride days even has a system where a half rolled red is used to get a specific bike to return to the pits.

Sorry mate but NO this is EXACTLY where the issue lies. The flag use rules are clear cut. Club "interpretting" the rules is asking for an accident to happen. The discussion had on this subject. a few months ago quite frankly horrified me.
Put in plain english--If you DON'T know,understand what the flags mean you should NOT be on the track -as a rider or a flaggie.
Incidently I do not believe that AMCC use "just" the yellow flag.-Its always preferable to keep the bikes going round n round whenever possible but a full course red is definitely used


Just to qualify this -Track days are not RACE meetings. With track days because you are dealing with the general public the flags are "dumbed down" --No point in waving the meatball flag when 95% of riders don't know what it means.

[FROSTY:Me]

MSTRS--It would be fantastic if you relayed your experiences to the race comittee of AMCC. If you prefer I'm happy to pass the info on to them. The current comittee is fairlly new and DEFINITELY open to constructive criticism.


Re ride days I'm not convinced but only because as I said above if theres too many flkags the publicv just aint goinna understand.

[MSTRS:Me]

I believe they've been told. But with what seems to have been the case with marshals at Paeroa, they aren't listening...
Ride days - I think the oil/debris flag could be dropped. Just wave te yellow for anything other than 'get off'. The blue would be very useful.

Have a word with Pretty Billie, and ask her about marshals standing just off the track, and picking up bikes/riders without clearing the track first, and using an ambo flag as a red, and no extinguishers. Utter insanity.

[Gremlin]

Incidently I do not believe that AMCC use "just" the yellow flag.-Its always preferable to keep the bikes going round n round whenever possible but a full course red is definitely used

Most certainly not, my reference was purely to the yellow. It is the only flag we wave, the rest are held stationary only. Up to 5 flags are used at points, yellow, blue, red, oil (or more suitably, slippery surface) and ambo. S/F has even more, black, green, white, checkered etc.

I believe they've been told. But with what seems to have been the case with marshals at Paeroa, they aren't listening...
Ride days - I think the oil/debris flag could be dropped. Just wave te yellow for anything other than 'get off'. The blue would be very useful.

I think anyone at Taupo heard your comments... many times over etc. and your comments and advice was listened to... seems you weren't doing the listening if thats your opinion. Blue has been dropped from ART days to reduce complexity, mostly aimed at the people not used to being on track. Star certainly seemed to approve the operation...

Have a word with Pretty Billie, and ask her about marshals standing just off the track, and picking up bikes/riders without clearing the track first, and using an ambo flag as a red, and no extinguishers. Utter insanity.

All due respect etc, you'd be better off talking to someone who actually has a large amount of experience, or someone that has actually marshalled. 1-2 seasons, and some events per season does not constitute experience. The comment re extinguishers is laughable. Every event I have marshalled at in the last 5 or so seasons (and I have marshalled almost every one - missing one or two days a season), there have been extinguishers. It is true at Taupo however, those extinguishers appeared to be out of date, and the issue was raised.

Your comment about clearing the track first has been heard before... sometime around the point you swore and shouted at other marshalls, hardly a constructive behaviour. Someone else, higher than a marshall, witnessed your outburst at the beginning of the day, and saw no issue. Ambo flags are not used in replacement of the red either, and are displayed where possible, where there is an ambulance on track, to warn the riders. Obviously, this most likely co-incides with the use of the red.

I am well aware of your procedure regarding a rider down, and in my personal opinion, it is more dangerous and introduces unnecessary delays. If a practise/race needs to be stopped, then it certainly is, but it is not necessary for all incidents. The incidents at Paeroa last year and this, under your rules, would have had more serious injuries. Riders on fire and riders trapped under sidecars, under your rules, would be left until all racers had exited the track. In plain english... stuff that. My duty is to ensure my safety first, then attend riders, then bikes. If it is safe to attend, then I will, regardless of whether bikes have exited the track (unless ruled otherwise by officials, obviously).

Just a little disclaimer, as most are aware I marshal for AMCC and other organisations... I speak for no-one but myself and its all my own personal opinion.

[jellywrestler]

Ride days - I think the oil/debris flag could be dropped. Just wave te yellow for anything other than 'get off'. The blue would be very useful.

.

Dont drop the oil flag at all. This will indicate that aside from the oil/debris issue, which wont change each lap, that the corner is the same. If you are already using a yellow to indicate oil etc then someone goes down the riders aren't warned enough and may only expect what was there on the last lap and get a surprise. As for the blue flag, i assume you mean passing, no no no, that only confuses people and they panic or move about and cause more trouble.

[MSTRS:Me]

Most certainly not, my reference was purely to the yellow. It is the only flag we wave, the rest are held stationary only. Up to 5 flags are used at points, yellow, blue, red, oil (or more suitably, slippery surface) and ambo. S/F has even more, black, green, white, checkered etc.

I think anyone at Taupo heard your comments... many times over etc. and your comments and advice was listened to... ............

All due respect etc, you'd be better off talking to someone who actually has a large amount of experience, or someone that has actually marshalled. ........... Every event I have marshalled at in the last 5 or so seasons (and I have marshalled almost every one - missing one or two days a season), there have been extinguishers. It is true at Taupo however, those extinguishers appeared to be out of date, and the issue was raised.

Your comment about clearing the track first has been heard before... sometime around the point you swore and shouted at other marshalls, hardly a constructive behaviour. Someone else, higher than a marshall, witnessed your outburst at the beginning of the day, and saw no issue. Ambo flags are not used in replacement of the red either, and are displayed where possible, where there is an ambulance on track, to warn the riders. Obviously, this most likely co-incides with the use of the red.
I am well aware of your procedure regarding a rider down, and in my personal opinion, it is more dangerous and introduces unnecessary delays. If a practise/race needs to be stopped, then it certainly is, but it is not necessary for all incidents. The incidents at Paeroa last year and this, under your rules, would have had more serious injuries. Riders on fire and riders trapped under sidecars, under your rules, would be left until all racers had exited the track.

I was not issued a blue flag, nor a red.
If my comments were 'listened to' then tell us all - and it wasn't just me either, at briefing - why was I still instructed to marshal on the grass inside turn 4?
And it was at that point, out on the track, that I swore. Because I had already stated what I was prepared to do, and was ignored. I had already agreed to forego a family funeral in Taupo so that racing could continue with enough marshals.
Marshals going to clear bike/s or riders down...of course we do. But not until the red is out at all points. And no way, when bikes are still circulating at warp speed. Which is what we were told to do. Being told to 'drop everything and just go' is NOT the way to do it.
If PB was not very experienced, then WTF was she doing in charge of marshals?
You are right about the extinguishers - I guess someone decided to run without them. If those ones belonged to the track, then I hope they were given the message.
Anyway, I was primed to react badly, because I'd already been warned how AMCC events were run, by others who refuse to have anything to do with them. What I saw etc, just confirmed they were right. And I'm not likely to attend again in future, because of that.

[MSTRS:Me]

Dont drop the oil flag at all. This will indicate that aside from the oil/debris issue, which wont change each lap, that the corner is the same. If you are already using a yellow to indicate oil etc then someone goes down the riders aren't warned enough and may only expect what was there on the last lap and get a surprise. As for the blue flag, i assume you mean passing, no no no, that only confuses people and they panic or move about and cause more trouble.

Point. I don't know whether any flag can be dropped, then. Then blue is also important. It is used to tell a slower rider to hold their line, as a MUCH faster rider is about to overtake. Why would the slow rider panic and move about?

[Gremlin]

I was not issued a blue flag, nor a red.
If my comments were 'listened to' then tell us all - and it wasn't just me either, at briefing - why was I still instructed to marshal on the grass inside turn 4?
And it was at that point, out on the track, that I swore. Because I had already stated what I was prepared to do, and was ignored. I had already agreed to forego a family funeral in Taupo so that racing could continue with enough marshals.
Marshals going to clear bike/s or riders down...of course we do. But not until the red is out at all points. And no way, when bikes are still circulating at warp speed. Which is what we were told to do. Being told to 'drop everything and just go' is NOT the way to do it.
If PB was not very experienced, then WTF was she doing in charge of marshals?
You are right about the extinguishers - I guess someone decided to run without them. If those ones belonged to the track, then I hope they were given the message.
Anyway, I was primed to react badly, because I'd already been warned how AMCC events were run, by others who refuse to have anything to do with them. What I saw etc, just confirmed they were right. And I'm not likely to attend again in future, because of that.

You were not issued with any flags, as you were meant to be at Point 4. You set yourself up on the hairpin. Now, there was a geniune error there, the marshal meant to be at the hairpin (said, actual point 7, being called point 6) mistakenly went to the real point 6, hence why the hairpin didn't have marshals until you went there, hence why you didn't have any gear etc. Lesson learnt, AMCC would probably use both points (my opinion obviously), based on marshal feedback. You were listened to in regards which points to run, I remember that clearly. I didn't listen to you all day, so not sure what other advice you gave. Remembering that listening to advice doesn't mean we have to obey it to the letter, but its certainly taken under advisement.

Point 4 was a safe place to marshal. Perhaps not to you, used to sitting in a tower, but it was the inside of the behind, a decent distance from the preceding bend (a left hander). You certainly wouldn't have been told to stand on the outside of point 4. Funeral, nice of you to stay to help obviously, but irrelevant in the matter of the track, if you follow. Re safety, you certainly don't just blindly run across the track. Your safety is first, getting the relevant flag out is next, then assessing when it is safe to attend.

I'm not sure how you thought PB was in charge of the marshals, she most certainly isn't, and I was never told to report to her or anything. I believe she is in some role on the road race committee, but the AMCC newsletter thing clearly states Angela Vernon as the chief flag marshal (who briefs us, arranges marshals for each event etc).

It certainly does sound like you arrived with a preconceived notion, which probably wouldn't have helped, and may have assisted in missing the postives, and seeing the negatives (the way a human mind works).

[MSTRS:Me]

Actually, I was assigned to point 3. The tower backs onto point 9 at the end of the main straight. The 'other' marshal there set up on the grass on the inside of that right-hander. I refused. As I had stated I would do, at what passed for the briefing. And it most definitely was PB who appeared to be in charge. It was she who came out to see what the fuss was about at point 3. She re-assigned me to point 7, which I had no problem with, except I then had no gear or radio. At least I had my cell phone and could call my wife, who did have a radio, to get stuff sent out to me.

[Gremlin]

Sorry, point 3, turn 4

different people are in charge of different things, ie, "god" (affectionate nickname - clarke of the course or something I think) was someone else again.

[pipson]

Actually, I was assigned to point 3. The tower backs onto point 9 at the end of the main straight. The 'other' marshal there set up on the grass on the inside of that right-hander. I refused. As I had stated I would do, at what passed for the briefing. And it most definitely was PB who appeared to be in charge. It was she who came out to see what the fuss was about at point 3. She re-assigned me to point 7, which I had no problem with, except I then had no gear or radio. At least I had my cell phone and could call my wife, who did have a radio, to get stuff sent out to me.

The young lady that was walking the track with us ( before racing) said she was the chief flag marshal. The tall chap that was with us at the time said the cages or point are for car races not bike races & we AMCC stand on the edge of the track. Who ever put the flags & extinguishers put point 1 & the end of the fence & not in the designated point 1. I was on point 2 that backs on to point 1 I have seen in other races bikes crash at turn 3 & slid to with in meters of where they wonted you to marshal. I saw a marshal cross the track 3 times during 1 race the rider was mot injured. The marshals on that point mush have good life insurance. When we got back from the walk we showed every one that had not been to Taupo before where the points that are put in place by Taupo Motorsport were as per the map out side the office by the pits. This was my first & last time for AMCC.

[Jabez]

OK, I stand corrected on the blue flag:
Blue Waved Road Racing: Overtaking signal warning rider is about to be overtaken.
Blue Held Stationary Road Racing: Indicates that competitor is soon to be overtaken.

But what is the difference between these two situations (Rider/competitor & About/soon)?? This is badly worded (ambiguous)!

[Gremlin]

I just hold it out stationary to the slow rider.

The way we are told is... given to slow rider as a warning that faster riders are coming up, hold your line and prepare to be overtaken.

The reality is... the rider does their best to get out of the way, which realistically makes it a bit more dangerous, but usually facilitates the faster rider(s) getting through quicker.