111 system report

[Pixie]

People like you seem to want "a Rolls Royce - on a Morris Minor budget", it won't happen, - you, the public and Spud and myself are going to have to make do with what we've got/been given.

Direct you grief at the politicians et al. Spud and I will TRY and do our job the best we can, we have more idea of what's involved and what the constraints are.

D

Accepted that this situation is the fault of the polititicians;It would be more accurate to describe it as a Morris Minor,which is parked up and used as a whore house,rather than as form of conveyance.

[drummer]

Direct you grief at the politicians et al. Spud and I will TRY and do our job the best we can, we have more idea of what's involved and what the constraints are.

i am sure you do, but Spuds reaction in particular got me going... he has continually defended the service that is losing public support rapidly. I do not agree with his or your belief that the police force is doing a good job in NZ. What is wrong with that? i will also continue to defend the abuse that Spud now throws, particulalry as he actively debates from a police point of view.

[drummer]

IMHO - That was one seriously flawed poll if you ask me.

A live phone in poll, at a certain time of night, on a certain TV station narrows down the viewer demographics to such a level that you couldn't seriously use this result as a true indication of national opinion. And this is compounded by the fact that there was, in % terms, such little difference between the yes & no votes. Shit loads of margin for error.

Maybe so but it is broadly in line with other surveys I have seen. Are you disagreeing that the public is losing confidence in the police?

[Wolf]

IMHO - That was one seriously flawed poll if you ask me.

A live phone in poll, at a certain time of night, on a certain TV station narrows down the viewer demographics to such a level that you couldn't seriously use this result as a true indication of national opinion. And this is compounded by the fact that there was, in % terms, such little difference between the yes & no votes. Shit loads of margin for error.

In 7th form stats we were all drilled in the lesson of a certain poll, conducted by telephone, predicting the outcome of the US elections - the poll suggested a landslide for one party and there was indeed a landslide...

In favour of the other party.

Why? Well, Bob, when the poll was taken, very few people actually had telephones and those who did tended to be rich so, not surprisingly, most of those polled were predisposed to vote for the party that had policies that supported their businesses.

However, there was at the time, milling about the USA, a greater number of poorer people who did not have telephones but did have the vote - and they used it to great effect.

The lesson we were expected to draw from this example of spectacularly bungled prediction: ENSURE YOUR SAMPLE IS PROPERLY INDICATIVE OF THE POPULATION AS A WHOLE.

BIff is way too humble (did I actually say that?) - his assessment of the poll is a considered one.

Viewer demographic profiles are sufficient to allow reasonably accurate targetted advertising slots - something they would not do if the audience was a full spectrum snapshot of the New Zealand population - they'd still be advertising Barbie and all her accessories along with the George Forman Grill, the Sex and Smut chatline and Earl Grey tea.

The people who responded to that poll belong to a certain demographic - a subset of the population that watches TV1 at that hour of the night, is interested in that subject matter, and (importantly) can actually be arsed phoning in with their opinion.

A poll conducted nation-wide with proper controls and carefully selected samples from all regions/ages/walks of life etc, would yield dramatically different results - it may show a greater faith in the police force or it may show even less faith - there is no meaningful way to determine which.

A proper poll would also have carefully crafted questions (plural) and would explore what areas people have or fail to have faith in rather than limiting the field with leading questions and simple yes/no answers.

I always used to giggle at Flipside - its hosts solemnly telling us that "80% of New Zealanders" wanted to hear more Hip Hop or thought that Politicians were too out-moded or whatever - based on texted-in responses to simple Yes/No polls on a programme aimed at teenagers

The hosts were so wet behind the ears they didn't even realise how fucked their polls were. Probably 90% of those who answered the polls were below voting age and would not be able to exercise any power in a referendum - and would probably have changed their minds (or no longer think it important) by the time they were old enough to vote.

[scumdog]

i am sure you do, but Spuds reaction in particular got me going... he has continually defended the service that is losing public support rapidly. I do not agree with his or your belief that the police force is doing a good job in NZ. What is wrong with that? i will also continue to defend the abuse that Spud now throws, particulalry as he actively debates from a police point of view.

Think what you want to think but don't drop your lance, - theres a shit load of windmills out there that are just waiting to be tilted at!!

Find something constructive and meaningful to do eh?

[Lou Girardin]

It turns out that the TV1 poll was a total debacle. They changed the question after an ad break. Now they have to refund all the 0900 fees.
But the bottom line is still that the public are losing confidence in the Police at an alarming rate. This was all easily predicted from the UK experience. There's something about the NZ mindset that prevents us from learning lessons from elsewhere.
And I'm even refraining from saying I told you so.

[Biff]

Are you disagreeing that the public is losing confidence in the police?

I can't answer that question as I've only been in this country since October.

What I have also noticed is that there is a large portion of the public that appears to whinge and blame serving police officers for any perceived shortcomings in the quality of service received. Now this is just plain bloody stupid and a waste of breath. These people should be having a go at the senior police officers, decision makers and politicians, not the men and woman of the police force that simply follow orders.

[Lou Girardin]

Possibly, but there isn't a shortage of thieving, gang-banging, thuggery among the ranks either. There aren't many, but one is too many.
Anyway, it's too difficult to complain about "the Police, but I don't mean any of the good ones" when you post/write letters/generally whinge.

[drummer]

Think what you want to think but don't drop your lance, - theres a shit load of windmills out there that are just waiting to be tilted at!!

Find something constructive and meaningful to do eh?

Hmmm.. sounds deep to me. why do you think that debating this issue is not constructive and meaningful?

[drummer]

I can't answer that question as I've only been in this country since October.

What I have also noticed is that there is a large portion of the public that appears to whinge and blame serving police officers for any perceived shortcomings in the quality of service received. Now this is just plain bloody stupid and a waste of breath. These people should be having a go at the senior police officers, decision makers and politicians, not the men and woman of the police force that simply follow orders.

If you have only been here for that short time, i would suggest you should come back in a few years time and tell us then the same thing because your view may change. Granted, the ones above are the main problem but there is also too much head in the sand material in the front line... look at Spud for example

[Lou Girardin]

Spud has his head in the sand. Stop it, you're

[drummer]

Stop it, you're

huh... I ain't speeding!

[Biff]

If you have only been here for that short time, i would suggest you should come back in a few years time and tell us then the same thing because your view may change. Granted, the ones above are the main problem but there is also too much head in the sand material in the front line... look at Spud for example

I doubt my view will change in a couple of years.

I've lived in several countries over the years and, without exception, members of the public blame police officers in general for their personal gripes for the perceived poor level of service they believe they receive. This is despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of police officers are hard working, law-abiding individuals. Despite this there will always be a minority of individuals who continue to abuse police officers in general, simply because it's easier to do than whinge to the proper authorities, the ones that actually make policy, allocate budget etc. It's the easy option and a way to vent their anger and frustration. Particularly when it's a lot easier to insult a uniform, even from behind a computer screen, than topple a government or influence policy making in general.

I'm afraid there most certainly is nothing unique about NZ. This kind of anti-police sentiment is the same the world over. But the fact remains NZ is one of the safest places in the world to live and work, and some of this must be attributed to effective policing.

But don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that there is nothing wrong with the management of the police service here. As I’ve already stated I don’t know enough about the service delivered by the police here. The only brush with the law I’ve had are speeding related, and even then I must admit that the cops did their job well, and I’ve even been let of a ticket, despite the fact that I was well over the limit.

If you really want to change the way things work, then you need to channel your energy in the direction of the policy makers as opposed to the front line foot soldiers.

[scumdog]

I doubt my view will change in a couple of years.

. Despite this there will always be a minority of individuals who continue to abuse police officers in general, simply because it's easier to do than whinge to the proper authorities, Particularly when it's a lot easier to insult a uniform, even from behind a computer screen, than topple a government or influence policy making in general.
If you really want to change the way things work, then you need to channel your energy in the direction of the policy makers as opposed to the front line foot soldiers.

Never mind Biff, let 'em complain all they want if it will make them feel better!

I don't mind at all - but then I don't care either, they don't pay me for that.

[drummer]

I doubt my view will change in a couple of years.

I've lived in several countries over the years and, without exception, members of the public blame police officers in general for their personal gripes for the perceived poor level of service they believe they receive. This is despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of police officers are hard working, law-abiding individuals. Despite this there will always be a minority of individuals who continue to abuse police officers in general, simply because it's easier to do than whinge to the proper authorities, the ones that actually make policy, allocate budget etc. It's the easy option and a way to vent their anger and frustration. Particularly when it's a lot easier to insult a uniform, even from behind a computer screen, than topple a government or influence policy making in general.

I'm afraid there most certainly is nothing unique about NZ. This kind of anti-police sentiment is the same the world over. But the fact remains, that NZ is one of the safest places in the world to live and work, and some of this must be attributed to effective policing.

But don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that there is nothing wrong with the management of the police service here. As I’ve already stated I don’t know enough about the service delivered by the police here. The only brush with the law I’ve had are speeding related, and even then I must admit that the cops did their job well, and I’ve even been let of a ticket, despite the fact that I was well over the limit.

If you really want to change the way things work, then you need to channel your energy in the direction of the policy makers as opposed to the front line foot soldiers.

Interesting post... perhaps seen through rose tinted specs. you seem to miss the point however. The fact remains that there has been a massive decline in public confidence towards the NZ police. Thats not an opinion... it is fact. Note I said "confidence". the people of NZ need to know that if needed the NZP will respond quickly and desisively. Unfortunately this hasn't been the case in recent times. Now, if you can find a post where I crucify front line police in general, i would be surprised. What i will do and continue to do is to defend myself against verbal attacks from posters here who actively portray themselves as police officers. especially when the attack comes in reply to pointing out the facts already mentioned.