Longer chain means changing suspender setup?

[mashman]

Hi all... i've recently gotten my forks back and am in the middle of some maintenance... linkages, dogbone etc... Whilst i'm at it I'm going to throw on a new chain... the new chain will undoubtedly have more links than the current one (don't ask)... soooooo by lengthening the wheel base, will the handling characteristics change that much?

Cheers

[MSTRS:Me]

Probably be more stable in a straight line. And resist doing anything else. Like go around corners...
How much longer w/b are you talking? 25mm from new chain to worn out is not unusual, so would have to be way greater than this to make huge differences in handling.

[mashman]

Cheers man... Could be up to, maybe above, 3 links... I've got 106 on the back at the moment (i think it's 106, could be 104) and threw on an extra 3 teeth at the back, so the chain adjusters are nearly jammed against the frame... I never had any high speed stability issues though... primarily as i don't go that fast on the road and even at Manfeild she was very stable at higher speeds... I reckon i'll be pulling the wheel back about 1 - 2 inches...

[MSTRS:Me]

So, if I understand, you have put on a larger rear sprocket, which has meant lengthening the chain a little. That in itself is not lengthening the w/b. The axle is still sitting in the original swing-arm and has the same amount of adjustment slide available as it does with a smaller sprocket/shorter chain.
What you have done is increase the acceleration ability of your bike, and slightly reduced the maximum top speed, due to revs topping out.

[mashman]

Sorry. First thing i did, well one of the first, was throwing on the larger sprocket (using stock chain). I then bought another chain, took a couple of links off of it because i'd fucked the axle bolt, well semi fucked it (got a 6 point socket and alls good again), so ended up with the rear wheel brought forwards about an inch... I'm now getting a new chain and fully intend using as much of it as possible, so will go from one extreme to another, well from right up against the front of the swingarm to as close to the back of the swingarm as i dare go...

[MSTRS:Me]

.. I'm now getting a new chain and fully intend using as much of it as possible, so will go from one extreme to another, well from right up against the front of the swingarm to as close to the back of the swingarm as i dare go...

Ahem! Just use as many links as you need to position the axle towards the front of its adjustment. As the new chain wears, how are you going to tighten it, if you can't pull the wheel back? And dropping a link to achieve the job is the same as doing it now...

[MSTRS:Me]

Actually, aren't new chains usually 120 links? That is, 60 plates a side.
You just thread the chain around the sprockets, with the wheel pulled towards the front of the slot in the swingarm, and then where the links fall within the teeth on the rear sprocket determines where you split it for length required.
If you are going to dick around with sprocket sizes (at least the rear sprocket) then maybe you need several chains of 1/2 links difference in length? Or lots of clip links. *yuck*

[mashman]

Actually, aren't new chains usually 120 links? That is, 60 plates a side.
You just thread the chain around the sprockets, with the wheel pulled towards the front of the slot in the swingarm, and then where the links fall within the teeth on the rear sprocket determines where you split it for length required.
If you are going to dick around with sprocket sizes (at least the rear sprocket) then maybe you need several chains of 1/2 links difference in length? Or lots of clip links. *yuck*

The rear wheel will be off anyway as i'll have the linkage off to grease up the bearings (should be fun as i believe that they aren't caged bearings)... might also be an opportunity to lengthen the shock for a bit more turn in speed, but ummming and arrring on that one, especially as i won't know how she'll handle once back together......

ha ha yuck indeed... Not dicking around too much... the new chain is 114 links... so should have plenty to play with, but would like to leave as many links on their as possible as i've been led to believe that I should get a smoother pull out of corners, something to do with a straighter swingarm in relation to the frame yadda yadda. I was really just trying to prepare myself for the changes in handling, as i'm sure something will change...

[MSTRS:Me]

The rear wheel will be off anyway as i'll have the linkage off to grease up the bearings (should be fun as i believe that they aren't caged bearings)... might also be an opportunity to lengthen the shock for a bit more turn in speed, but ummming and arrring on that one, especially as i won't know how she'll handle once back together......

ha ha yuck indeed... Not dicking around too much... the new chain is 114 links... so should have plenty to play with, but would like to leave as many links on their as possible as i've been led to believe that I should get a smoother pull out of corners, something to do with a straighter swingarm in relation to the frame yadda yadda. I was really just trying to prepare myself for the changes in handling, as i'm sure something will change...

Ya what? The only thing that will change the angle of swingarm to frame should be the length of the shock (at rest). To steepen frame/front fork angle, which gives you quicker tip-in - you put a spacer under the top mount on the rear shock.

[Robert Taylor]

Lengthening the wheelbase ( via positioning the rear axle further back in the swingarm ) is the biggest single thing that displaces more weight onto the front wheel and less on the rear. It also raises the rear of the bike a little and changes steering geometry. It also places more leverage on the rear shock. On a GSXR1000K7 the difference between rear axle full forward and full back is approximately half a spring rate change required, expressed in the way Ohlins rate springs.

[Robert Taylor]

Ya what? The only thing that will change the angle of swingarm to frame should be the length of the shock (at rest). To steepen frame/front fork angle, which gives you quicker tip-in - you put a spacer under the top mount on the rear shock.

Think about it more carefully, the swingarm always faces downwards a little and therefore so do the rear axle slots. And adjusting the chain changes several things at once.

[mashman]

Lengthening the wheelbase ( via positioning the rear axle further back in the swingarm ) is the biggest single thing that displaces more weight onto the front wheel and less on the rear. It also raises the rear of the bike a little and changes steering geometry. It also places more leverage on the rear shock. On a GSXR1000K7 the difference between rear axle full forward and full back is approximately half a spring rate change required, expressed in the way Ohlins rate springs.

So you'd recommend checking the sag again after the change?

Thanks for sorting the forks... they don't dive as hard now and don't bottom out... did have to wind off some of the rebound though as they were kinda Kangarooy...

[MSTRS:Me]

Think about it more carefully, the swingarm always faces downwards a little and therefore so do the rear axle slots. And adjusting the chain changes several things at once.

Too much thinking does me 'ead in. I can see how a rear positioned axle will increase the leverage force on the shock tho...

[Robert Taylor]

So you'd recommend checking the sag again after the change?

Thanks for sorting the forks... they don't dive as hard now and don't bottom out... did have to wind off some of the rebound though as they were kinda Kangarooy...

Yes, recheck sag figures.

And thats what adjusters are for, as long as they have a decent bandwith of adjustment.

[mashman]

And thats what adjusters are for, as long as they have a decent bandwith of adjustment.

For my kind of riding I think there's more than enough adjustment... but thanks for clarifying what the adjusters are for

Cheers MSTRS and Robert... just need to get rid of the family for a few hours now...