A little bit here a little bit there

[rainman]

Basically (and generalising) it's because Labour Voters pay very little income tax (vis. "Working for Families"), and some GST - whereas most National voters pay both.

Yeap has been happening in NZ for decades under Labour leadership but National have said they will fix it, good on them.

The tax on trust is something ridiculous like 5% (not 100% sure) so if I have an investment property, open a trust, I become a trustee, put the house under it and I save thousands.

So it was you voters Don Brash was recently referring to?

...bridge the gap between us and other countries like Auzzie.

What makes you thin we a) can catch Aussie, and b) should?

[Mudfart]

Not only is it an incentive to save and move the nation towards being more aware of saving up and not living on credit.

It also helps retain our highly skilled, highly educated people in the country which we need if we are to bridge the gap between us and other countries like Auzzie.

lol when a person receives a higher education, the first thing they learn is, "I can make more money overseas", so they bugger off. I can see the incentive towards saving though, I certainly don't want to buy anything brand new ever again once GST hits 15%.
Hopefully (for the bike shops) it wont be before start of next summer, when i get my full and a bigger bike. I'm looking at something around 16g. gsxr750, zx6r, daytona etc...

[Mudfart]

no no no, the thing peeps do with investment properties these days is start a company to manage the property(s). Then they get all the tax benefits of running a business. Trusts are for getting more involved with hiding funds, for the likes of polititians.

[mynameis]

So it was you voters Don Brash was recently referring to?



What makes you thin we a) can catch Aussie, and b) should?

There's your problem right there selective reading.

I said if we are to not that we will catch them but there's lots of reasons to, hence the government(s) of the past have been trying to.

Some of it include better standard of living, better pay and that's partially the reason behind mass migration of Kiwi's to Auzzie Land.

lol when a person receives a higher education, the first thing they learn is, "I can make more money overseas", so they bugger off. I can see the incentive towards saving though, I certainly don't want to buy anything brand new ever again once GST hits 15%.
Hopefully (for the bike shops) it wont be before start of next summer, when i get my full and a bigger bike. I'm looking at something around 16g. gsxr750, zx6r, daytona etc...

For starters you don't just queue up like you do at Mackers for your higher education so you don't receive it, you work hard for it.

Like many others in this country I'd say I fall under "Highly Educated" - Degree and above and have travelled and worked overseas but choose to stay here in NZ because it's home and like no other place in the world.

You don't have to go far to realise that.

[rainman]

I said if we are to not that we will catch them but there's lots of reasons to, hence the government(s) of the past have been trying to.

Some of it include better standard of living, better pay and that's partially the reason behind mass migration of Kiwi's to Auzzie Land.

So, do you think we can catch Aussie or not? I take it from your comments above you think we should. And if it's better pay that drives migration (better standard of living sorta follows from that), and we should be aiming to reduce migration, what should the government do to increase wages in NZ? (Which I do think is a good idea).

Not living on credit is a lofty ideal too (mentioned in your earlier comment). What should the government do to stop people living on credit?

[Winston001]

Im a man of logic most times. Where is the sense in raising GST, ACC, and all the other things the NAts are going to hit us on, yet claiming to lower personal tax?
Why not leave personal tax where it is, and not raise the other taxes by so much?
Do they know how much it costs to change up all this shit?
.

There are 2.1 million workers paying tax in NZ, supporting 4 million people. GST is a spending tax which means it is spread across all 4 million because everyone spends money. Its also a kind of voluntary tax - if you save instead of spending, you don't pay it.

IIRC, (and I'm only a bush lawyer), the tax on trust income is 30% - so the guys paying the top rate (39%) end up running all their income through a family trust. I thought the idea was to align the two rates to avoid that happening (and raise GST to recover the revenue).

NO. Company tax is 30% and trustee tax 33%. Some people do operate businesses through trusts and avoid the 39% tax bracket but its only 6c saved and hardly worth the bother. Besides you are far better using a company now and people have done that for 100 years.

What the govt are also proposing is removing the depreciation allowance on investment properties. Its not a lot of money but since many recent property buyers have been relying on tax loses, its going to hurt some.

[Pascal]

Or are the only people who get further tax cuts, going to be the wealthy again?

Aren't they just about the only ones paying tax anyway?

But you asked where the sense is in raising GST and lowering income tax? People who are not prolifegate spenders will have more cash in hand to save, pay off their mortages and so forth. GST is also a fairer tax as it cannot be evaded.

[oldrider]

Was this meant to be in the "sayings" thread in Jokes??

Can't give you bling but point taken!

[mynameis]

So, do you think we can catch Aussie or not? I take it from your comments above you think we should. And if it's better pay that drives migration (better standard of living sorta follows from that), and we should be aiming to reduce migration, what should the government do to increase wages in NZ? (Which I do think is a good idea).

Not living on credit is a lofty ideal too (mentioned in your earlier comment). What should the government do to stop people living on credit?

Aah selective reading/quoting at its best - again. None the less.

Your questions are basically asking how long a piece of string is. Unfortunately there isn't any magic wand the govt of the day can wave around and fix it like that.

Simply put it this way, the gap has always been there and based on both the countries economic growth, development and performance from the past and to date one can only say that we can try and address certain issues within our abilities to ensure the gap doesn't further increase. I.e. the above initiative by the government to reduce income tax of higher earners is an incentive to retain our highly educated/highly skilled people in the country.

I think even John Key stated that the gap will remain there. Australia is a much larger economy than NZ and there are certain areas where we simply cannot compete therefore cannot compare. We shouldn't be aiming to reduce migration, I am more than happy for dole bludging NZer's to move to Auz and claim their dole. (Since it's so easy there and the govt just gives money away). By the way they are called Mozzies - Maori Auzzies and when they move there their accent also changes in 6 months

If you think about the govts plan as you ask "what should the government do to increase wages in NZ" increased wages means more money in the pocket, tax cuts also means more money in the pocket (For some). What I meant by not living in credit is better management of your cash - a lot of Kiwis are simply useless at it and the amount of debt we have as a tiny nation is very high. If you've got a mortgage you've got one.

But what kills it is people living way beyond their means and putting everything on finance @ 20%. That's just silly in my opinion.

[Pascal]

But what kills it is people living way beyond their means and putting everything on finance @ 20%. That's just silly in my opinion.

I'm not convinced it's a government's job to fix stupidity. There are sufficient programs available from Sorted through to budgeting advice directly from WINZ that people who are willing to manage their finances can, with help.

[Mully]

I'm not convinced it's a government's job to fix stupidity.

I agree - but then I'm not convinced this is stupidity as much as ignorance.

Whether it's caused by the "instant gratification" generation is up for debate.

And normally, I'd be the first one to hold parent's accountable for their children not understanding the folly of compound interest and whatnot - but if parents can't/wont educate their kids on finances, should the State (schools) step in.

Often, an 18 year old gets to Uni (or their first job) and their Bank kindly steps in with an overdraft facility/Credit Card/Personal Loan.

[Pascal]

I agree - but then I'm not convinced this is stupidity as much as ignorance.

I seem to recall a similar discussion in one of the many other GST threads. Stupidity is perhaps a bit harsh, because I'm struggling to fit myself into the shoes of somebody who is older than 16 and doesn't know that badly geared debt is bad and that there is a little mouse on television that will help you organise your finances to achieve your goals.

It would be good to have more real world skills in schools though. When I hit my first paying job it was difficult adjusting to money and I made a lot of really, really dumb mistakes. Part of it not listening / understanding what my parents had tried to teach me, part of it the iWant devil and part of it simply not realising what I was getting myself into.

[mynameis]

I'm not convinced it's a government's job to fix stupidity. There are sufficient programs available from Sorted through to budgeting advice directly from WINZ that people who are willing to manage their finances can, with help.

+1 I agree with you.

[rainman]

Aah selective reading/quoting at its best - again. None the less.

How exactly am I selectively quoting you when I quote your entire comment but for your previously unfounded claim of selective quoting? Idiot.

Your questions are basically asking how long a piece of string is.

Reading comprehension, you need to work on it.

Unfortunately there isn't any magic wand the govt of the day can wave around and fix it like that.

Well, what do you understand their job to be then? I prefer my politicians to be accountable, thanks.

As to the rest of your post, you're saying the gap will always be there, and thus we won't catch up. So the much-trumpeted plan to catch Aussie, which the Nats are paying good money to cretins like Brash to work on (talk about bludging) is doomed to fail, but it's all right, because no-one thought it would work anyway and isn't he nice, that nice Mr Key?

If only there were some intelligent right wingers in this country.

[Coldrider]

Bridging the gap with Aussi by 2025 is a smoke screen for politicians to not focus on todays problems today.
How many of the politicians promoting such will be around in 2025 to be held accountable?
Bridging the gap with Aussie is but a $99 Jetstar airfare away.