Oil types?

**Pixie** · 31st March 2010, 07:34

Originally Posted by Blackbird

The short answer is no, don't mix oils or you ruin their individual characteristics and run the risk of shortening the life of your motor at the same time. If you've done reasonably high k's (say 50,000 km+ or less on a high-revving motor), using a fully synthetic oil for the first time at that distance; you run the risk of oil seal leaks as synthetic is a very efficient dirt scavenger and can take carbon and other residues off seal faces causing leaks (it did on my wife's first MX5).

One of the major differences with motorcycle oils is that they tend to avoid certain components of the additive package which car oils have. This is because most bikes have wet clutches and car additives can make them slip. Also, some bike oils have an additive to reduce the effects of oil shear (early breakdown of the oil) due to higher revs than cars. Hope that answers your questions anyway.

To be more precise,Synthetic oils Are made from two base stocks: PAOs ( poly aliphatic olefins ) and Esters.PAOs are purely synthesized chemicals made from various natural hydrocarbons that come out of holes in the ground and Esters are made from fatty acids from plant and animal sources.
PAO based synthetics have the extra solvent property that can loosen varnish deposits that have built up in old engines that have been lubricated with mineral oils all their lives.These deposits can block oil paths and result in an engine seizing.PAO base stocks are less common today as it is more expensive than Ester.So the problem is unlikely to occur.
The resultant oil that is manufactured in either process,is chemically identical to mineral oil;mixing mineral oil and synthetic has no great problems other than you end up with a blend that is better quality than the mineral constituent and worse than the synthetic constituent.

Marge: What's Brunch?
Jacques: You'd love it, It's not quite breakfast, it's not quite lunch, but
it comes with a slice of cantaloupe at the end. You don't get
completely what you would at breakfast, but you get a good meal!

Synthetic has less contaminants than mineral (less dinosaur poo) and oxidises less than mineral because of this.Synthetic is not "more slippery" than mineral.
The quality of detergents,viscosity index improvers,PH buffers etc is dependent on the retail price of the oil -the better the quality the higher the price-regardless of whether the oil is mineral or synthetic.
The base oil does not break down due to shear in motorcycle gearboxes.The VI package does however.So a multigrade oil,say a 15W40 is a 15 weight base with viscosity index improver polymers than raise the viscosity to 40 weight when they get to operating temperature.
The VI polymers do get sheared in use and lose the ability to raise the viscosity and you end up with a 15 weight oil which does not protect your engine well.This shearing happens in all machinery but is at it's worse in the gear trains in a gearbox.More expensive oils have a more expensive and more durable VI package.
Other additives such as PH buffers that neutralise acidic combustion products and detergents that suspend solids (ash and carbon) so that the filter can remove them eventually become spent.
Then it's time to change the oil.

It's interesting to note that the engine oil in ocean going ships may not be replaced for the life of the ship.Through the use of hugely efficient filtering and decontamination plant and the precise control of oil temperature, the base oil can be used indefinitely.

By the way,I use Elf oil.
Not because it's better than anything else,I just don't like those bloody elves.

**Pixie** · 31st March 2010, 07:46

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

It's very important to match the recommended SAE spec. That is, you should not be using a 15W40 oil where a 10W30 is required in high-speed motorcycle engines, or they will wedge the thicker oil up and spin a bearing inside a housing.

All due respect but this is bollocks.
There is no "thicker" or "thinner" oil in a multigrade.Just base stock and a VI pack

**Pixie** · 31st March 2010, 07:58

Originally Posted by Motu

We won't mention the Mini,which was in production for about 40 years,starting in 1959 with oils no one in their right mind would use these days....with engine oil running in the trans.They even had auto versions running in the same engine oil.They were told it couldn't be done.

Yes but it made 10 HP and had the British "continuous oil change" development designed into it.

**Drogen Omen** · 31st March 2010, 09:10

I read my Buell manual and it suggested i can use Diesel oil for a length or 3000km's before needing an oil change, it also said that diesel oils can be a good way to clean out the engine because of the higher amout of soap in it.

well i got a bottle of Power-UP nnl690g (as my primary lubs my gears and transmission)...
gonna put it in with my oil this weekend, and will be using Mobil 1 from now on as its the best motorcycle oil available in New Zealand going by almost every bike forum i checked on the net.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Power Up New Zealand was established in 1988, the head office is located in Christchurch with sales representatives throughout the country.

Product categories
- Aviation
- Oil & grease

Automotive
- Fuel

Engineering, general
- Grease
- Grease guns
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Aurora Technology Ltd in Harewood, New Zealand - Power Up New Zealand provide the following fuel and oil performance additives nnl690, nnl690g, algex, thixogrease, tak2 fuel additive oil additive for a wide base of application including planes, trucks, cars, motorcycles, boats, any engine or machine, earthmoving and construction equipment

Power Up NZ will prepare an application chart detailing specific lubricant types at no cost so that the correct lubricant can be identified and sought. We also have the experts out in the field that will come to you, rather than be a telephone link from an urban centre.

As a final word, it is cheaper to change the oil more often than it is to change the motor. Don't try to economize lubrication cost by stretching out oil change intervals without expert advice!

For further information, look at the Maryn New Zealand website :- www.maryn.co.nz

**Quasievil** · 31st March 2010, 09:20

Originally Posted by Drogen Omen

well i got a bottle of Power-UP nnl690g (as my primary lubs my gears and transmission)..

Is it a Oil or a Additive?

**Pixie** · 31st March 2010, 11:31

I'm about to market an additive derived from oily dog fur.
It's called Fukitup.
Look out for it.

**Drogen Omen** · 31st March 2010, 11:36

Originally Posted by Quasievil

Is it a Oil or a Additive?

powerup nnl690 is an oil additive.

**Quasievil** · 31st March 2010, 11:53

Originally Posted by Drogen Omen

powerup nnl690 is an oil additive.

Dont go putting it in with the Mobil 1 eh mate.

That would be bad

**Drogen Omen** · 31st March 2010, 12:22

Originally Posted by Quasievil

Dont go putting it in with the Mobil 1 eh mate.

That would be bad

too late, just finished pouring it in...

i also noticed that i don't have a separate oil for gears or trans... so i guess the mobil 1 will lube everything...

**Quasievil** · 31st March 2010, 12:27

Originally Posted by Drogen Omen

i also noticed that i don't have a separate oil for gears or trans... so i guess the mobil 1 will lube everything...

Dont know, you dont and arent running MOBIL 1 anymore, you are running Drogen special.

good luck with that.

**pritch** · 31st March 2010, 15:09

I have read the thread to which Vifferman refers and it is good. The best I've seen though is here: http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/...motor-oil.html

The posts you are looking for in particular are those from georgecis, George Morrison. He was an engineer but has sadly passed away. The thread ranges all over the place but his contributions are really worth the read. It is a long read but, with the possible exception of Blackbird, you'll almost certainly know more about oil when you finish than you did when you started.

The thread relates directly to Ducati, and it does mention at least one brand of oil not available here, but even so I think it's worth the effort. Especially with regard to what some of the less principled manufacturers have been up to...

**quickbuck** · 31st March 2010, 17:27

Originally Posted by Pixie

Yes but it made 10 HP and had the British "continuous oil change" development designed into it.

That would be "Recirculating with Total Loss" oil system.
It is a genuine term in the aviation industry..... Rolls Royce Viper is a common engine that uses such a system.

I digress.
Where were we...
Oh, my ten cents.
Always buy the BEST oil you can afford.
Never add additives
If you feel the need, buy a better oil... it works out cheaper in any (EVERY) case!!!

**Owl** · 31st March 2010, 17:40

Originally Posted by pritch

The best I've seen though is here: http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/...motor-oil.html

What an excellent read!

**PeeJay** · 1st April 2010, 17:31

Originally Posted by Owl

What an excellent read!

Heres another excellent read.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
And considering it's published in the land of lawyers, if any of the results were untrue, or unfair in any way, amsoil would be getting sued left right and centre and they would have to remove it from their website.
I am sure the other oil companies would have had their own tests done in the hope of catching amsoil out, but considering its been published for 9 months and is still available on amsoil's website, you would have to assume its accurate