14th May '05 - SH22 ** PICS AND VIDEOS

[erik]

...and also. the countersteering thing. I want someone to prove me wrong on this because I cant be right. but I come from a serious backround of pushbiking and as far as I can feel. the only time I ever turn the bars the way I want to go is when Im at or near stationary, IE. I apply pressure to the left bar to turn left. on every corner. but its the confidence to get that low that you suggest. especually on a bike like mine that bothers me.

...

I think you've got it right here. Countersteering is necessary to get the bike to lean over, you can't ride without doing it already. I guess what Two Smoker is getting at is that when you're in a corner and feel like you're going wide, it helps to have an understanding of how countersteering works to be able to change your line and tighten your curve.

Other stuff, like "don't be afraid to lean" and "look were you want to go, not at the ditch" is also helpful advice for avoiding going wide. How exactly it helps, I am not sure. I'm still learning to put it in to practice fully myself.

I've tried doing figure 8's in a carpark and changing my line while I do it, I think it might've helped a bit. I think I'm more comfortable, and feel more able to change my line when I'm hanging off the bike as I'm able to lean the bike and let it move underneath me without moving myself as much. Maybe it'll work for you, maybe it won't.

Another thing that can help is working on the line you take into the corner. The guys at the Ride Right course (and in "Profficient Motorcycling") suggested taking a line on the road so that you are wide in the corner until you can see the exit of the corner, then tighten your line. It's also called "late apexing". I think basically it can help because by consciously trying to keep wide-ish (not too wide, you don't want to go off the road or be taken out by someone crossing the centreline), you'll tend to go slower.
If you do the opposite to late apexing, and apex the corner early, you might find the corner continues to go around further than you expected and find yourself heading towards the edge of the road. Plus the late apexing technique gives you the furthest view of the road ahead on blind corners.

It's hard to explain, hopefully that was somewhat understandable. Pictures would help and I highly recommend reading the "Profficient Motorcycling" book for more info.

[John]

I think you should quit now while you're ahead dude.

I seriously doubt your interlectual ability - I dont give a fuck what you think I wouldnt really give a shit if you were jesus yourself you just are unwilling to accept anything that you may disagree with you have proved this on more than one occasion.

[justsomeguy]

I wasn't being ignorant about it John. I think the statement you made about the "newbies trying to keep up with the fast guys" was incorrect! They weren't.

Now stop being a twerp.

Wasn't one of the accidents caused by *reckless* overtaking..... trying to keep up a fast pace

and another accident

taking a corner too fast.........trying to keep up a fast pace

[pyrocam]

pyro dude, your tyres will corner like hell. You've seen MR take a bike like yours and dissapear. He'll show you any time what your bike is capable of. I only mention MR as one of many who'd show you, but he's the first person I've seen over take me on my 636 on the outside of a corner with the pegs scraping the road without breaking a sweat - on an RG150.
A lowside will just send you sliding. A high side or ditch will send you flying. Which would you prefer? It might not feel the most confident, but just do it. Under the circumstances, it could be a small learning-brown-pant moment by leaning and finding out you can do it, or running wide cos you're a bit scared of the tyres letting go, only to run into the path of oncoming cars. Just for God sake dude, lean.

And please don't stop going on rides. A couple of the key things about the groups is - safety in numbers (you could bin anywhere, any time. If you're with people immediately, that's the best thing. Doesn't just happen on rides), learn from other people. What their lines, they will watch yours. Discuss wide run corners, late braking etc. From this, you will learn. By not going on rides, you are effectively cutting your self off from an unmatched wealth of talent and decades of experiance.
I wish to God that I had stumbled across KB when I first set out, but I didn't, so my learning probably came on a bit slower than it could have. And I've learnt things that I would have done differently, if I had been on KB sooner.

Just watch how you go, and ride to your abilities. The chances are, the bike has more capability than you, so you ride to what you're good at, the bike will be fine. Fron there, you build up your comfort zone, and build on it from there.. Can't stress this enough. And this isn't just to Pyro, it's to everyone who's unsure about their feet. It's all time, and it will come, so don't give up..

I do apreciate this BJ. you know me better than most KB'r s and you know what bike my bike can do and you proberly know my capabilities better than I do. but, I seriously think the 22 is NOT suitable for noobs. I fucked up several times that I dont wish to post the video for and I think. perhaps the 22 is more a moderate-expereinced rider road.

I hate to say this. but. after so many close calls and unskilledness on it. I dont recommend the 22 for ANY noob ride. Ive come out of it clean twice but both times (you know this surfchic and from the vids) Ive come very close to disaster.

perhaps the next noob ride should be UP the SH1 to wellsford or further.

[dss3]

I had a very enjoyable ride, left Hamilton around 10.00 i think and was getting used to riding again after a few weeks off the bike. 22 was in very good condition given the time of the year and the threat of rain.

About 50k out of Ngara's I cam across the first guys leading the ride down from Aucks, thought sweet i'll keep riding untill the end of the tail and then follow along with the guys at the back.

Well!, shit I had to ride for about and extra 5km before I could turn around, 'tis a very impressive sight to see a line of 40ish bikes in a train weaving their way through the back roads! Finally got to the end of the line and saw Eric, so thought i'd sit just in front of him and let him follow along behind me (for whatever benefit he may gain from following me!) you seemed to be riding really well mate! We started to increase the pace a little and caught up to some of the others.

Then had a cool blat back into Ham's following MR and TS. Equally as good following them on the way back, these two are great to ride behind to learn from, so long as you can keep them in view! Also had a good time sitting in behind sAsLEX along Horitu Rd, some very nice sweeping corners there.

All and all was a great days riding for me, shame I didn't get to meet many of the new faces, always next time.

And TS lemme know when your disc's are done at F1 if you like I can pick them up and courier them to you from work... no charge.

Re the wide cornering/crashes, it is all very well to just say "lean some more" but really how easy is that too do?! Im sure that the all of us find that when we lean we get to a point where we don't feel comfortable leaning any more, and it feels like to do so was cause you to crash, despite the fact that the bike can certainly be leant further. You will only feel comfortable leaning the bike more with time and practise.

Ciao
Daryl

[Sheep Dags]

I hate to say this. but. after so many close calls and unskilledness on it. I dont recommend the 22 for ANY noob ride. Ive come out of it clean twice but both times (you know this surfchic and from the vids) Ive come very close to disaster.

perhaps the next noob ride should be UP the SH1 to wellsford or further.

If you're gonna ride motorbikes you have to learn to take corners. 22 is perfect for this. You don't HAVE to go at any speed you aren't comfortable with. In fact you definately shouldn't. The more rides you go on, the more you will learn. Of course you're not gonna get your knee down overnight, but you will slowly get more confident and learn where your real limits lie, by riding more. But i totally agree, don't ride outside your limits. You know what they are.

[MacD]

If you do the opposite to late apexing, and apex the corner early, you might find the corner continues to go around further than you expected and find yourself heading towards the edge of the road. Plus the late apexing technique gives you the furthest view of the road ahead on blind corners.

It's hard to explain, hopefully that was somewhat understandable. Pictures would help and I highly recommend reading the "Profficient Motorcycling" book for more info.

Good advice Erik.

The RideSafe website has quite an extensive discussion on riding lines and countersteering around corners.

Early apexing is also a bad idea on right-hand corners as it puts you too close to the centreline, as well as tending to run you wide on the exit.

[pyrocam]

on a different note. Im very annoyed that I didnt hbave the camera going when my bike shat itself on sh1 at 100 or so K's

so here is an animated gif to help describe it


man I hate the guy that called me a bastard after I came so close to being fender goo.

[dss3]

LMFAO!

Luv that little .gif mate, that is bloody cool! If you had it weaving half as much as the little .gif rider did im impressed!

_daryl

[erik]

nice gif

Maybe he thought you did it on purpose?

[pyrocam]

thanks guys. for the record, that is actually what happened. it was a visual aide but honestly. my back wheel was doing such random angles. I honestly thougt at the time I was going to die

[pyrocam]

nice gif

Maybe he thought you did it on purpose?

yeah as far as I was aware, he could see me wanking myself all over the road so he was pissed at having to slow down.

I reckon he was following too close though and had a close call himself so was a bit scared himself

[SuperDave]

I agree with some of you guys especially Quasi's comments. I'm new to biking myself being on my restricted and only having about 8 months worth of riding time, but depsite this I can see that you guys need to stop thinking with your dicks and use your brains more.

No offence Ricksta, but this is the 2nd time that you have crashed very recently. You gotta slow down, chill, and learn to control your bike. I have crashed once on my FXR at about 45kph, from my own negligence with the kickstand causing a lowside. Now I was not injured badly, nor the bike too badly damaged, but I realise fucking up like that could have been a lot worse, such as a car being in the other lane which myself and the bike slide across into for example.

Luckily the few recent bins albeit the obvious one have not seen those involved being seriously injured. You are not invincible.

[limmy]

Would have been good if you had been on the ride. I was there and talked with these guys and they were gutted about it but positive at the same time. I think they are learning from their mistakes.

Hmm....learning from their mistakes? Not too sure bout that. Isn't that 2 crashes out of 2 rides now Ricksta?

Ricksta, now will you believe me when I say you shouldn't have gone on the ride? 22 is a difficult ride and its not for everybody. I didn't go on the ride for a good reason....i did it a few weeks ago and it was too much for me. basically my skills didn't match the road.

Would be a good idea for the newbies to just stick to the easier rides. there's a good reason why the newbie ride that we did last week was on Old North Road. Its a nice simple ride to get you used to cornering at speed.

Not too long ago I was in the same position as the newbies (well...i'm still quite new actually ) but i took the advice of the more experience guys and just practice leaning. And went down to the track and did more practicing. and got comfortable with my bike. I am enjoying it much more now. I guess what i'm trying to say is the newbies should just cool it off and take it easy. Some of the other guys have had five to ten years or even more riding experience so they are more capable of going round the corners. You should know your own limits and ride at a pace that suits you. Riding is one of those things where you need to be real honest with yourself. If you bullshit yourself into thinking that you're hot shit then you'll probably end up killing yourself.

[2_SL0]

I mean no offence to anyone, but I watched the vids, I would recommend you both do some reading and then some practising. Motorcycles are all about corners. They are the hardest thing to come to grips with, but proberly one of the most important.
I would happily lead the slow riders but they may get bored with my even slower pace.