Do racers want to pay to use transponders at EVERY race meeting?

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

its a mass start race, not a time trial. you compete against other riders, not the clock. Im always one to favour lower racing costs, so if transponder hire cost can be reduced or eliminated, Im keen! If your really keen to know what laps your pulling, you will time yourself with thatever technology you wish to use ie, cell phone at trackside, timing beacon thingy or other devices.

But qualification times need to be accurate. When racing, lap times arent as important as finish order in my opinion.

[wharfy]

iWhen racing, lap times arent as important as finish order in my opinion.

Yep but sometimes the finish order is determined by hundredths of a second - transponders are well worth the money in those cases.
In the scheme of things $700 dollars for a transponder is not much compared to comsumeables like tyres, oil (and in my case cycle parts !!)

[FROSTY:Me]

Years ago i mentioned that auckland CAR club have all the equipment needed to run transponders. including the transponers themselves. Talking to them would probably be clever

[Biggles08]

its a mass start race, not a time trial. you compete against other riders, not the clock. Im always one to favour lower racing costs, so if transponder hire cost can be reduced or eliminated, Im keen! If your really keen to know what laps your pulling, you will time yourself with thatever technology you wish to use ie, cell phone at trackside, timing beacon thingy or other devices.

But qualification times need to be accurate. When racing, lap times arent as important as finish order in my opinion.

I agree with what you are saying but I think the point of transponders in a race is ONLY for scoring and eliminating any human error with who's done how many laps and who came where. If it was all about ONLY lap times for personal use then yes we wouldn't require them at all...but they have greater applications than merely that.

[snapoff]

All time on tracks is important ,this is history ,you need to no what times you are doing and what times others are doing to go faster, if you think you dont need to no then you are not a racer you are a muppet,when you turn up to the track all you need to no is which way does the track go and what is the lap record.

[Marknz]

...hell, I punt around in clubmans and one could argue I need a calendar, not a stopwatch for my lap times....

I resemble that remark ;-)

[WarrenW]

Ok guys, take a step back and think of this from the organisers view. You have 40 + bikes out in a qualifying session, every lap has to be timed in order to get accurate grid positions. Keeping track of that many bikes would mean a lot of stopwatches and lots of human input, not to mention the people that need to be organising the grid position whilst the next qual session is running. You would (in the current economic climate) probably need to coax these 'volunteers' with a little pocket money. Overall the race day would suffer as things would not be done as accurately or quickly. I also think the costs would not be too much different.
I agree that the clubs involved could look at purchasing the equipment themselves. Bear in mind that the rechargeable ones have a finite battery life and are blooming expensive (unless you know the right contacts in Aussie) to get the batteries replaced as the units are encapsulated. If the club made it mandatory to have a transponder owned as part of the condition of entry, they could possibly negotiate a bulk deal from AMB, past history has seen very little reduction in these prices. People could then pruchase one from the club and resell it back to the club or another competitor when they ceased racing.
The investment in the acutal timing system (PC, software etc with NO transponders would likely to be about $15K) this would be a very limited system that would do the job slower than the current Timing supplied by Tim Gibbes (he has about 8 or 9 laptops around the track at any one time).

I think the cost is fair for the outlay that has been invested by Tim. I have personally used E-Bay to locate a second hand rechargeable unit and purchased it from the UK at well below what you pay for a new one. It was 3 years old when I bought it and it's still going strong, regular charge cycles have seen to that.

Think outside the square, source them from overseas or just go buy one, the Vic Club is unlikely to go back to the cave man days with 50+ vollies to run an event. Imagine being the poor person that would have to coordinate that!.

Go forwards not backwards - even at club events.
My 2c worth.
Cheers

[wharfy]

I think the cost is fair for the outlay that has been invested by Tim.

Indeed, I am pretty sure he's not going to make the "rich list" from it. I have MUCH more confidence in the fully electronic system than in in any manual method's. I am in the computer biz, I know that computers can "f*%k up" but 99% of the time it is human error (wrong input or lack of testing) The AMB system is mature and well tested, finish order and lap times require no human intervention. I have no idea what backups Tim Gibbs crew have in place at a race meeting but I would be surprised if they had none. In the couple of years or so I've been actively involved in (modern) racing I don't recall hearing about a failure of the system. Checking your transponder is charged up (or for me plugged in ) is just part of bike prep. Having said that of course I have gone out to qualify without my transponder being plugged in
I hired a transponder for the first year when I raced my road bike, but decided that when I sprung for a race bike purchasing a transponder was just part of the cost, $700 about the same as a single set of tyres.

[quickbuck]

.... but decided that when I sprung for a race bike purchasing a transponder was just part of the cost, $700 about the same as a single set of tyres.

That's the way I see it too Warfy....

[Biggles08]

Interesting...at present over 75% of racers are willing to pay extra to have a more accurate timing system at EVERY race event.....I must say though, I'm not really surprised...but I am surprised at how many want transponders 'at any extra cost...(27% at time of writing this comment).' I personally voted for option 2. I think some clubs could learn from this poll if they chose to.

[boostin]

So how much extra would it be to run them at an AMCC club day?

[Biggles08]

So how much extra would it be to run them at an AMCC club day?

I'm not sure boostin....I imagine in the vicinity of an extra $35-$40 per rider, per day. I'm sure someone can answer more specifically though as that is only going on what extra we get charged at VMCC run events. Of course, as people have said, if they were serious about racing AND transponders were being used at every race meeting attended, it would make it an easy choice to go out and purchase a transponder to own. food for thought :-)

[prettybillie]

I think the cost is fair for the outlay that has been invested by Tim.

You have to realise as well that the clubs who run the meets have to pay Tim a huge fee for his time to be there as well. As far as I am concerned with what he's making in hiring out transponders and his fee for doing the service - he's doing alright for himself. So realising this if transponders were used in the current state, the clubs would need to increase their entry fees also to compensate for the timing crews fee.

My question would be are the timers double dipping by charging the clubs for their time and charging racers for the hire - one would think the fee they charge the clubs should be inclusive of the transponder hire.

The comment was made at Hampton Downs Nationals by the timing crew that they try to make the hirage fee as much as possible to encourage riders to buy their own. Fairly unreasonable I think.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

I'm not sure boostin....I imagine in the vicinity of an extra $35-$40 per rider, per day. I'm sure someone can answer more specifically though as that is only going on what extra we get charged at VMCC run events. Of course, as people have said, if they were serious about racing AND transponders were being used at every race meeting attended, it would make it an easy choice to go out and purchase a transponder to own. food for thought :-)

I can see the day looming thet all racers are going to have to use transponders and purchasing your own is going to make sense. Realisticly the cost of hiring one every weekend is soon going to out way the cost of a one of purchase and provided you mount them in an 'out of the way place' so they dont get muntered in a bin there resale value will be high for when you done racing. There are so few out on the second hand market and there cost is only minimaly cheaper than a new one anyway.

I've heard the concept mentioned that when you buy your licence you buy your transponder with the agreement to sell it back if you dont renew your licence. A big outlay to start with but with a guaranteed buy back value.

Tim made a smart move in investing in transponders, he gets to charge two people, the racer and the timer not a bad buisness eh.

[Biggles08]

You have to realise as well that the clubs who run the meets have to pay Tim a huge fee for his time to be there as well. As far as I am concerned with what he's making in hiring out transponders and his fee for doing the service - he's doing alright for himself. So realising this if transponders were used in the current state, the clubs would need to increase their entry fees also to compensate for the timing crews fee.

My question would be are the timers double dipping by charging the clubs for their time and charging racers for the hire - one would think the fee they charge the clubs should be inclusive of the transponder hire.

The comment was made at Hampton Downs Nationals by the timing crew that they try to make the hirage fee as much as possible to encourage riders to buy their own. Fairly unreasonable I think.

I guess it comes down to how much riders are willing to pay extra PB. You might be more in a position to tell us exactly what extra on top of usual race fees it would be for AMCC to have transponders at every club round. Has anyone worked that out exactly?....what extra cost per day you would have to charge every racer? Has the question been asked of Tim G too? He most likely would do a better deal for AMCC too if he knew he was going to be at every round. Food for thought anyway.