Fear reaction when cornering

[MSTRS:Me]

This is another thing that has slowly changed. I started with late apexing, and for whatever reason I slowly drifted into more of a "racing line" over the last year or so, not so much to go faster or anything, it just seems to have happened. Perhaps it is laziness.
They mentioned this at RRRS, and it came to my attention that I wasn't late apexing like I used to. I have recently decided to return to using late apexing for the road, because I perceive it as being safer.

When you take the racing line, 2 things happen...
1. You cannot see as far ahead in a corner, so hazards appear when you are closer to them, giving you less reaction time and space.
2. On a right hander...where's your head?? Somewhere around the same position as the head of that cager coming towards you!

[R-Soul]

Well not by itself. You could go and do a 'trackday' and still come out no better unless you understand what is actually happening yourself and learn from it or have someone who does understand teaching you. I can't dance for shit. Putting me in a ballroom isn't going to make me a better dancer.

No but going on a track will make the rest of your riding seem boring and you will not even try to go fast anymore.

I think the ART day ruined my commuting!

[rocketman1]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why, but it happened , now I have got into the negative thinking that if it happened once for no apparent reason it could happen again.
I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners, I have no trouble on sighted corners or race tracks.It is a head space thing. I just worry about going too fast into unknown corners, and the fear of seeing a vehicle that you are sure your are going to hit coming the otherway. I tell you... one thing... YOU NEVER forget it.

I guess that its a good thing in a way, it checks my speed.
But try not to dwell on it.
Im sure you will get over this feeling after a while ...

[Corse1]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why, but it happened , now I have got into the negative thinking that if it happened once for no apparent reason it could happen again.
I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners, I have no trouble on sighted corners or race tracks.It is a head space thing. I just worry about going too fast into unknown corners, and the fear of seeing a vehicle that you are sure your are going to hit coming the otherway. I tell you... one thing... YOU NEVER forget it.

I guess that its a good thing in a way, it checks my speed.
But try not to dwell on it.
Im sure you will get over this feeling after a while ...

Yes and not only that...you can be on the correct side of the road and still hit some idiot passing on a blind corner coming the other way. Followed a truck through the mamaku's the other day. There was a very large tractor and trailer that took the whole left lane. this idiot trucker pulled out to pass probably 150m from the corner.
I watched with horror as i expected a vehicle to come round the corner . I have never used my first aid ticket for a road smash. When he pulled back in he was already part way round the corner. When you travel this road frequently on bikes it makes you think. That would have been the end.

I was ok with blind corners but now I have the fear of oncoming traffic when entering blind corners. And this fatality waiting to haoppen will stick with me for a while now

[MSTRS:Me]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why, but it happened , now I have got into the negative thinking that if it happened once for no apparent reason it could happen again.
I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners, I have no trouble on sighted corners or race tracks.It is a head space thing. I just worry about going too fast into unknown corners, and the fear of seeing a vehicle that you are sure your are going to hit coming the otherway. I tell you... one thing... YOU NEVER forget it.

I guess that its a good thing in a way, it checks my speed.
But try not to dwell on it.
Im sure you will get over this feeling after a while ...

There was definitely a reason. You should go back to that corner, walk through it and recall everything you were doing (speed, lane position etc). You will be able to work it out, and therefore what you should do/not do in future to avoid a repeat.
Usually when it 'goes wrong', it's because we have failed to read the road correctly. But if you don't work out why, you are doomed to repeat the failure. And might not be so lucky.
If you fear blind corners (or whatever) then riding might not be you. But never lose a healthy respect for them.

[dmoo1790]

This is another thing that has slowly changed. I started with late apexing, and for whatever reason I slowly drifted into more of a "racing line" over the last year or so, not so much to go faster or anything, it just seems to have happened. Perhaps it is laziness.

Interesting. I assume you mean you're starting the turn close to the inside of the corner to stop someone passing you up the inside :-). You don't say but I also assume you mean you're tending to run wide on the corner exit? If so then, yes, late apexing will help you hold a tighter exit. On blind corners this is what I do to help hold a tight line on the exit. But you can still avoid running wide on exit after a tight entry if you're not going too fast. I found that track days helped a lot with learning how to hold a tight exit line. Especially if your bike wants to stand up and run wide when hard on the gas.

[CookMySock]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why...

You got a fright and refused to steer. This usually happens when people haven't grown up with a disciplined approach to bar-steering.

Trust your tyres. Set your bike up properly. Get on the track. Get some tuition. You can work through it, but you have to commit to it and put your fears aside. The rewards are there.

Steve

[beyond]

Your subconscious is screwing you around from your low side. A very powerful thing the old mind
Slow down, start working on getting your lines exact again and then slowly upping the pace to where you were before. All you need to do is retrain your mind. It will take a little time but start slow and move up as you regain confidence. It will happen.

[rocketman1]

You got a fright and refused to steer. This usually happens when people haven't grown up with a disciplined approach to bar-steering.

Trust your tyres. Set your bike up properly. Get on the track. Get some tuition. You can work through it, but you have to commit to it and put your fears aside. The rewards are there.

Steve

Steve, Thanks for the note. I have covered this thread previously , fairly thoroughly and had alot of feed back.
The fact is I believe I know how to steer / countersteer, a bike . The fact is I wasnt concentrating, went a bit fast, in too higher gear, I was heading straight for the gold toyota previa, I had no time to lean more or countersteer, I sort of stood up and pushed the bike down, i guess this helped with countersteering, i just missed it the car, to this day i dont know how. I saw t he driver swerved to miss me.
Thank god he / she had quick reactions....Yeah maybe I should take some training but I have ridden for years and done several track days so I reckon I can ride pretty good. I hear 48% of bike deaths are at corners I can understand why.
I say, slow down for unknown corners and concentrate.

[CookMySock]

I sort of stood up and pushed the bike down, i guess this helped with countersteering

No it doesn't. It makes it much worse, and very quickly.

Try this exercise and you will see why.

Ride along a straight piece of road at a sedate speed and stand up on the footpegs and then sit down, but quite far to one side. The bike will immediately tend to turn in that direction so you will be forced to countersteer it just to maintain your position on the road. Ie, if you sit to the left, you will need bar pressure on the right, and vice versa.

Now re-seat yourself even further in that direction, and notice the bike is actually tipped quite far in the opposite direction.

What I mean to illustrate is, if you continue to move your body weight one way, and tip the bike the other way, you will eventually scrape pegs while travelling in a straight line.

Now do you see what the problem is?

You must never "stand up and push the bike down" as you simply undo your efforts and increase your turn radius.

Always put your body weight on the inside of the bikes' center-of-mass line and never never outside while cornering. As an exercise, try it mid-corner - in a constant-radius turn at a constant speed, roll a trickle of throttle on and stand up and be seated further toward the inside of the corner. Note the bike position to be quite a lot more upright, bar pressure lessens or even reverses, the bike is more settled, you feel more comfortable, ground clearance increases, and you may safely tip into the corner even further should you be required to in an emergency.

hth
Steve

[Urano]

[dangerous]

This is more a rant about a disappointment I'm experiencing with my riding at the moment, but perhaps you might be able to identify with it, and chime in....

NB: I have not read any replys so might be repeating or eravelent.

Is the CBR a new ride for you?
people often have trouble with right handers, IMO most of the problem is that counter stearing means pushing on the throtle grip, this is a mentel issue because with out relising it you dont want to open the taps up while loading that arm up with presure to turn... something to think about.
In general, again IMO body position is paramont. if you are not using the uper body to stear and are leaning the bike over more than needed to corner. I see a lot of riders having issues cornering due to this.
Pivioting the uper body has a pendulim affect and gives you power stearing, with the knolage that you are not having to lean the bike so much thus subcounsiously you are not so sceard to corner.
If ya reply il try and explain further.

[CookMySock]

8 out of 10, really...

Steve

[p.dath]

Is the CBR a new ride for you?
people often have trouble with right handers, IMO most of the problem is that counter stearing means pushing on the throtle grip, this is a mentel issue because with out relising it you dont want to open the taps up while loading that arm up with presure to turn... something to think about.
In general, again IMO body position is paramont. if you are not using the uper body to stear and are leaning the bike over more than needed to corner. I see a lot of riders having issues cornering due to this.
Pivioting the uper body has a pendulim affect and gives you power stearing, with the knolage that you are not having to lean the bike so much thus subcounsiously you are not so sceard to corner.
If ya reply il try and explain further.

I've had this particular bike just over 12 months now. Since posting this thread (I think ts a month old now) I've made a number of changes (mostly thanks to fine tuning at ART days on the track).

I'm using a different grip on the throttle now (although that only has consequence when braking, and doesn't apply in this case since we are talking about cornering), I'm using a different seating position on my bike (which has resulted in me being able to grip the tank with my knees more easily), I've had my suspension adjusted (more firm now - bike doesn't bounce around as much as it used to) and I've returned to using late apexing on the road (had gotten lazy and was using more of a racing line), and I guess I would say I'm simply taking corners slower on the road so they are more fun to me.

I still wouldn't say I am a fan of blind corners, but I'm feeling a bit happier about them.

But do lend your words of wisdom ...

[MSTRS:Me]

You must never "stand up and push the bike down" as you simply undo your efforts and increase your turn radius.

For once, you are almost right...
In an emergency corner situation - Lean with, or more than, the bike. Weight the OUTSIDE peg. Push harder still on the inside bar. As DMNTD says, kiss your inside mirror. Stay OFF the front brake.
...except, how do you explain 'motard style'? Cos that works too...