Insurance discussion

[dirty89]

I was refused cover buy Swan Insurance today for the first time, I applied for cover this Saturday 3.4.2010 CDMCC at Manfield.I was given the explanation that to many accidents have occured recently at track days that were losely run.CDMMC was mentioned as the highest risk of all track days, now I love these, and all track days but, if adjustments aren't made as to how these events are run, my problem (no cover) will be everybodies problem if it isn't already. My broker is Kiwibike and they were very informative as to where this is heading if more organised events aren't put in place.Motto TT , Kiwibiker Trackdays, and training days Brian Bernard etc were no problem (at this stage). Am I having a go at CDMCC not my intention but I would like to bring this up for discussion and opinion because it has now effected my great passion. If this is openly discussed and passed around I hope that organisers of these awesome days will tighten up a bit so we can all get on with riding these great events.
Keeping a very close eye on riding classes and riding abilities would go a long way, I was also informed that if you are covered but in a class with a race bike you will not be covered on that day should something happen!
I thought it was awesome that we could get cover for these events, but know is the time to suggest some subtle changes or track Insurance as we know it may totally disappear.

[Metastable]

Sorry for the ignorance, but I'm curious. Are you talking about insurance for the bike or for you... as in Hospital insurance?

If you guys are covered for bike insurance, that's amazing. Up here there is NO CHANCE of getting covered for a crash at the track. Heck, even if you did... the coverage increase would be so huge that it wouldn't be wise to claim it. Most guys up here don't even have collision on their street bike (unless they owe money on it), since the rate increase on the car insurance and future bike insurance would make it a big money waster. Also, we have NoFault insurance up here, which means that if you are at fault in an accident and have no collision coverage, then you ARE NOT on the hook for the damages to the other vehicle, only your own.

As far as insurance for you, in our province we don't have to worry, but if we go to the US, we need to get special racing insurance, as typical travel insurance will not cover trackdays.

Sorry for the intrusion.... just wondering how your system works.

[spajohn]

Sorry for the ignorance, but I'm curious. Are you talking about insurance for the bike or for you... as in Hospital insurance?

If you guys are covered for bike insurance, that's amazing. Up here there is NO CHANCE of getting covered for a crash at the track. Heck, even if you did... the coverage increase would be so huge that it wouldn't be wise to claim it. Most guys up here don't even have collision on their street bike (unless they owe money on it), since the rate increase on the car insurance and future bike insurance would make it a big money waster. Also, we have NoFault insurance up here, which means that if you are at fault in an accident and have no collision coverage, then you ARE NOT on the hook for the damages to the other vehicle, only your own.

As far as insurance for you, in our province we don't have to worry, but if we go to the US, we need to get special racing insurance, as typical travel insurance will not cover trackdays.

Sorry for the intrusion.... just wondering how your system works.

Unfortunately NZ does not have compulsory third party, although Aus does FYI. Both countries tend to have bike friendly insurance companies that will cover you for track days on the basis of being notified in advance.

[SPman]

Unfortunately NZ does not have compulsory third party, although Aus does FYI. Both countries tend to have bike friendly insurance companies that will cover you for track days on the basis of being notified in advance.

The compulsory third party in Aus. is for 3rd party injury, only - a bit like the ACC levy.......If you have no 3rd party vehicle insurance, you are still in the shit!

[dirty89]

Yep thats Motorcycle Insurance, I have just recently found this company and this was the reason I signed up approx $800nz per annum and $250 excess, a good package, you inform them of your track day before attending and thats usually it, until now.

[Metastable]

So what happens if you make an at fault claim for crashing your bike (doesn't matter, either street or track)..... do your rates not go through the roof? Up here if you have an at fault accident where a vehicle is totaled, you might as well bend over.... especially car rates, will go up by AT LEAST $3000cnd/year. That's why I was saying, there is no point up here of having your motorcycle insured for collision. Funny enough the bike rates don't go up that much, but if you have a car you're screwed.

[SuperSonic]

I was refused cover buy Swan Insurance today for the first time, I applied for cover this Saturday 3.4.2010 CDMCC at Manfield.I was given the explanation that to many accidents have occured recently at track days that were losely run.CDMMC was mentioned as the highest risk of all track days, now I love these, and all track days but, if adjustments aren't made as to how these events are run, my problem (no cover) will be everybodies problem if it isn't already. My broker is Kiwibiker and they were very informative as to where this is heading if more organised events aren't put in place.Motto TT , Kiwibiker Trackdays, and training days Brian Bernard etc were no problem (at this stage). Am I having a go at CDMCC not my intention but I would like to bring this up for discussion and opinion because it has now effected my great passion. If this is openly discussed and passed around I hope that organisers of these awesome days will tighten up a bit so we can all get on with riding these great events.
Keeping a very close eye on riding classes and riding abilities would go a long way, I was also informed that if you are covered but in a class with a race bike you will not be covered on that day should something happen!
I thought it was awesome that we could get cover for these events, but know is the time to suggest some subtle changes or track Insurance as we know it may totally disappear.

I am with Star, and have no worries with track day insurance ( and Iam going tomorrow too). It might come down to the company you are with? I have been told that star have done alot of work with the track day company's to see how they are run and what needs to bo done so we(the riders) are covered.
I say change company's man.


Too Metastable, Wow Canada, internet is the coolies thing, Yes we get cover of bike on trackdays, if no timer in use and not in the fast group, also our isuarnce does go up after making a claim but not heaps.

[grantnz]

I was refused cover buy Swan Insurance today for the first time, I applied for cover this Saturday 3.4.2010 CDMCC at Manfield.I was given the explanation that to many accidents have occured recently at track days that were losely run.CDMMC was mentioned as the highest risk of all track days, now I love these, and all track days but, if adjustments aren't made as to how these events are run, my problem (no cover) will be everybodies problem if it isn't already. My broker is Kiwibiker and they were very informative as to where this is heading if more organised events aren't put in place.Motto TT , Kiwibiker Trackdays, and training days Brian Bernard etc were no problem (at this stage). Am I having a go at CDMCC not my intention but I would like to bring this up for discussion and opinion because it has now effected my great passion. If this is openly discussed and passed around I hope that organisers of these awesome days will tighten up a bit so we can all get on with riding these great events.
Keeping a very close eye on riding classes and riding abilities would go a long way, I was also informed that if you are covered but in a class with a race bike you will not be covered on that day should something happen!
I thought it was awesome that we could get cover for these events, but know is the time to suggest some subtle changes or track Insurance as we know it may totally disappear.

Have done all the CDMCC trackdays for the last 6 years, as well as odd Moto TT and Redline ones. Is there a difference in the way they are run?? In your opinion, what makes a CD Club trackday " losely run"? What changes would you make? Just curious and not a member of CDMCC.

[p.dath]

So what happens if you make an at fault claim for crashing your bike (doesn't matter, either street or track)..... do your rates not go through the roof? Up here if you have an at fault accident where a vehicle is totaled, you might as well bend over.... especially car rates, will go up by AT LEAST $3000cnd/year. That's why I was saying, there is no point up here of having your motorcycle insured for collision. Funny enough the bike rates don't go up that much, but if you have a car you're screwed.

What "usually" happens in NZ is your excess goes up, not your premium. Then for every year you are "crash" free the excess drops until it reaches a certain level (the maximum).

And the higher the excess the higher the risk you are personally taking if another accident happens again.

[p.dath]

Sorry for the ignorance, but I'm curious. Are you talking about insurance for the bike or for you... as in Hospital insurance?

NZ has a "hospital" scheme known as ACC that covers you weather you are at fault or not. The scheme is compulsory, and everyone has coverage. It also covers you for some rehibilitation and compensation of some wages.

You can get cover for a track day if it is for the purpose of "training". Usually there are restrictions such as no timing devices are allowed. Typically the excess is higher when on the track as compared to when on the road.

[SuperSonic]

Have done all the CDMCC trackdays for the last 6 years, as well as odd Moto TT and Redline ones. Is there a difference in the way they are run?? In your opinion, what makes a CD Club trackday " losely run"? What changes would you make? Just curious and not a member of CDMCC.

The main diff is that CDMCC do not have trainer riders out with all groups, they do have leaders that are speed limited in two of the groups. In the other tracks days you mention, they have trainer riders normally 3-4 in each group training riders as they ride, alsso in pits. This is more of a training day as mention be other members here, so insurance company's like this.

[Owl]

What "usually" happens in NZ is your excess goes up, not your premium. Then for every year you are "crash" free the excess drops until it reaches a certain level (the maximum).

Obviously varies somewhat, as my premium increased by about 25% a couple of years ago, but no change to excess. This year it dropped and next year I should be back to full NCB.

[grantnz]

The main diff is that CDMCC do not have trainer riders out with all groups, they do have leaders that are speed limited in two of the groups. In the other tracks days you mention, they have trainer riders normally 3-4 in each group training riders as they ride, alsso in pits. This is more of a training day as mention be other members here, so insurance company's like this.

Don't like insurance companies and have not insured a bike in 35 years of riding.
Can't see what difference a trainer rider is going to make when 'Danny the Deathlover' and his mate' No nerves Neville' decide to have a bit of a dice 100 metres behind the trainer rider and arrive at the Manfeild sweeper at 240 kph with back wheel locked, smoking and chattering and take out a bike or two. Most bins I have seen are the result of riders running out of talent, brain fade, or trying to stay with a faster bike when they should be in a slower group. Best advice at trackdays is ride with someone you know and trust in the group that best fits your ability, give each other lots of room, and if you rode it to the track remember that you have to ride it home as well.

[Little Smurf]

I was refused cover buy Swan Insurance today for the first time, I applied for cover this Saturday 3.4.2010 CDMCC at Manfield.I was given the explanation that to many accidents have occured recently at track days that were losely run.CDMMC was mentioned as the highest risk of all track days, now I love these, and all track days but, if adjustments aren't made as to how these events are run, my problem (no cover) will be everybodies problem if it isn't already. My broker is Kiwibike and they were very informative as to where this is heading if more organised events aren't put in place.Motto TT , Kiwibiker Trackdays, and training days Brian Bernard etc were no problem (at this stage). Am I having a go at CDMCC not my intention but I would like to bring this up for discussion and opinion because it has now effected my great passion. If this is openly discussed and passed around I hope that organisers of these awesome days will tighten up a bit so we can all get on with riding these great events.
Keeping a very close eye on riding classes and riding abilities would go a long way, I was .also informed that if you are covered but in a class with a race bike you will not be covered on that day should something happen!
I thought it was awesome that we could get cover for these events, but know is the time to suggest some subtle changes or track Insurance as we know it may totally disappear.

I will take this to our next committee meeting.
I would love to know the clarification of "loosely run"?' Scary that we are the higest risk, does your company have a reason why we are the highest risk? some information would be handy. Cheers

[p.dath]

Don't like insurance companies and have not insured a bike in 35 years of riding.
Can't see what difference a trainer rider is going to make when 'Danny the Deathlover' and his mate' No nerves Neville' decide to have a bit of a dice 100 metres behind the trainer rider and arrive at the Manfeild sweeper at 240 kph with back wheel locked, smoking and chattering and take out a bike or two. Most bins I have seen are the result of riders running out of talent, brain fade, or trying to stay with a faster bike when they should be in a slower group. Best advice at trackdays is ride with someone you know and trust in the group that best fits your ability, give each other lots of room, and if you rode it to the track remember that you have to ride it home as well.

The difference being that a trainer is likely to pull dangerous riders off before an incident happens. Also most training sessions have additional restrictions, such as where overtaking can and can't be done or how it can be done. And I think your less likely to get people with a full on racing mentality at a training day - that has certainly been my experience.