Pete Bethune - Should have got off the boat when he was offered

[Skyryder]

Bethunes behaviour in driving his boat in front of the Japanese vessel is akin to someone throwing themselves in front of a train and then "blaming the bloody train"!

Oh come on OR. You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese. Jeeeezz OR I canunderstand some of the younger ones going for this rubbish.......like the brain does not full develop untill the on set of male menopause............na..... I think ya just taking the piss.


Skyryder

[Berries]

Is the spell check not working on this thread or what ?

There is some doubt that the Jolly Rodger was actully used to signafy a pirate vessel. It may well be a myth from Hollywood. Teh skull and cross bones is a Masonic emblam and has nothing to do with piracy.

Proper pirates certainly flew Jolly Roger flags, although the design didn't match what we know now as the Jolly Roger because each ship had a different flag. A bit before Hollywood as well. I'd hate to quote Wikidpedia but there is plenty of info out there. I only know because I was trying to buy one lately and was amazed at what I found.

Back on topic, I'm with the OP. He should have got off when given the chance. Martyrdom only works in the Islamic world

[Skyryder]

You might not, but then you're known for attempting to twist definitions to suit your beliefs.

The AG was deliberately moved into the path of the Shonan Maru No. 2 at the last minute, as can be seen from the wake behind the AG immediately prior to the collision.

How about the many violent attacks and sinkings caused intentionally by Paul Watson's pirates in international waters? Why do you remain silent on those?

I'll tell you why. It's because you're a one-eyed wanker and to you the end justifies the means but rational people don't buy that bullshit.

Must be a bit of a bugger to realize you are not as bright as you think. If you are unable to counter my arguments with any thing other than an accusation that I twist definitions to suit my beliefs then perhaps you need to rethink your posts or not reply.

I remain silent because they are not relevant to this issue. If you consider them so then why did you not start a thread on them at the time they allegedly occurred and if you were not a KB member at the time then start one now……..but do not try and justify the actions of the Maru 2 on past actions of the AG. After all you cannot with any credibility condemn the AG for acting in a dangerous manner while at the same time support the Maru 2 for doing likewise. Is that your idea of a rational argument??

As for the personal attack with your one eyed wanker comments you can not even get the right answer to your own question.

That ‘the end justifies the means’ is not a rational issue for individuals but a moral one.

Bombed out again ol’ son…………….still like I said it’s bugger to learn that you are not as bright as you think.

Skyryder

[kwaka_crasher]

Must be a bit of a bugger to realize you are not as bright as you think. If you are unable to counter my arguments with any thing other than an accusation that I twist definitions to suit my beliefs then perhaps you need to rethink your posts or not reply.

Yes, I expect it will be upsetting for you when you finally do realise. You do nothing but repeat the baseless lies you believe - I give references and facts. Who's the fool?

I remain silent because they are not relevant to this issue. If you consider them so then why did you not start a thread on them at the time they allegedly occurred and if you were not a KB member at the time then start one now……..but do not try and justify the actions of the Maru 2 on past actions of the AG. After all you cannot with any credibility condemn the AG for acting in a dangerous manner while at the same time support the Maru 2 for doing likewise. Is that your idea of a rational argument??

Clearly it's yours. Don't try and tell me what I may or may not do, you hypocrite. You're trying to justify the illegal actions of the the Sea Shithead fuckwits citing historic alleged breaches of fisheries which by your own standard have no relevance. Although you seem to think that doesn't apply to you.

The history of Japanese fishing is one of breaking the law. Our laws in respect of our fisheries.

Ring any bells?

You attempt to vilify the Shonan Maru No. 2 and completely ignore the fact that the AG was manouvering with the sole intention to harrass the Japanese going about their lawful business. They have no right to do that. None at all.

As for the personal attack with your one eyed wanker comments you can not even get the right answer to your own question.

I've got the exact right answer. You're a one-eyed wanker - you ignore the illegal actions of the Sea Shithead fuckwits because you disagree with the entirely legal actions of the Japanese in whaling.

That ‘the end justifies the means’ is not a rational issue for individuals but a moral one.

A so-called moral position does not give anyone the right to harrass people going about their entirely lawful business in international waters. How about if someone's moral position is that motorbikes should be banned and then proceeds to harrass you for riding one, using their car to weave an endanger your life? How would you like that?

Bombed out again ol’ son…………….still like I said it’s bugger to learn that you are not as bright as you think.

I can, and do, run rings around fuckwits like you, day in & day out.

[kwaka_crasher]

The history of Japanese fishing is one of breaking the law. Our laws in respect of our fisheries.

http://www.japanlaw.info/lawletter/feb85/dov.htm

2007
May 10, 2007 - In 1979, Canada seized 19 American fishing boats for illegally fishing tuna within its territorial waters in the Pacific. ... In 1998, a fleet of 65 Japanese fishing boats sailed to Australian and New Zealand waters for the coveted southern blue fin tuna, in violation of a 1994 treaty ...

2008
Feb 23, 2008 - "The vessel refused to give a fishing permit number and threatened the Steve Irwin by reporting that it was armed," a Sea Shepherd spokesman said. ... An Australian Federal Court ordered in January that Japanese whaling be restrained in Australian territorial waters.


There's a shit load more ........................but what's the point you seem to support others than that of your own countrymen.

Why don't you fully reference all these claims? Is it because you're worried people can see for themselves how they lack any credibility?

[Pixie]

Oh come on OR. You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese. Jeeeezz OR I canunderstand some of the younger ones going for this rubbish.......like the brain does not full develop untill the on set of male menopause............na..... I think ya just taking the piss.


Skyryder

Well he's just gambled 15 years of his life on the expectation that the Japanese courts with behave in a totally atypical fashion,just to make a point to the Japanese.

Stupid hippy

[Maki]

This is an interesting slugfest, but lets step back a minute, and consider the facts objectively. The Japanese are hunting 1000 animals out of a stock of around 600.000. Is stopping this hunting more pressing than other environmental issues affecting the oceans? There are some MAJOR problems out there.

Overfishing.
Pollution.
Acidification.

There are HUGE problems out there and many species are near extinction. I respect anyone who does something to help rectify these real and pressing issues. I have 0 respect for those that ply the oceans in search of media attention in a speedboat waving a pirate flag, diverting attention from real issues and damaging the cause of environmentalism, all in the aim of drumming up a media frenzy and thereby getting more $ into their own greedy pockets.

I have no sympathy for Bethune. His actions are consistent with someone who wants to spend a long time inside a Japanese prison. I feel happy for him if he gets his wish.

As for this statement by skyryder:

"You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese."

Well, since you put it that way, why did he go to the expense of taking his precious boat into the wild and remote southern ocean? Not just to make a point to the Japanese? I reckon you are right there, sky. He probably did it to satisfy an abnormal need for media attention. Again, he got what he wanted.

The people I feel sorry for are Bethune's loved ones in New Zealand. He could obviously care less about their feelings.

[Pussy]

This is an interesting slugfest, but lets step back a minute, and consider the facts objectively. The Japanese are hunting 1000 animals out of a stock of around 600.000. Is stopping this hunting more pressing than other environmental issues affecting the oceans? There are some MAJOR problems out there.

Overfishing.
Pollution.
Acidification.

There are HUGE problems out there and many species are near extinction. I respect anyone who does something to help rectify these real and pressing issues. I have 0 respect for those that ply the oceans in search of media attention in a speedboat waving a pirate flag, diverting attention from real issues and damaging the cause of environmentalism, all in the aim of drumming up a media frenzy and thereby get more $ into their own greedy pockets.

I have no sympathy for Bethune. His actions are consistent with someone who wants to spend a long time inside a Japanese prison. I feel happy for him if he gets his wish.

As for this statement by skyryder:

"You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese."

Well, since you put it that way, why did he go to the expense of taking his precious boat into the wild and remote southern ocean? Not just to make a point to the Japanese? I reckon you are right there, sky. He probably did it to satisfy an abnormal need for media attention. Again, he got what he wanted.

The people I feel sorry for are Bethune's loved ones in New Zealand. He could obviously care less about their feelings.

Says it all, really!

[Skyryder]

I can, and do, run rings around fuckwits like you, day in & day out.

Yep that's why you get personal.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Why don't you fully reference all these claims? Is it because you're worried people can see for themselves how they lack any credibility?

See there you go again asking a question...............and giving yourself an answer to suit yourself. Thought you would have learned after your last debacle.....................but no

I've supplied links in the past and the usual response is to discredit the site..............and not it's contents.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

As for this statement by skyryder:

"You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese."

Well, since you put it that way, why did he go to the expense of taking his precious boat into the wild and remote southern ocean? Not just to make a point to the Japanese? I reckon you are right there, sky. He probably did it to satisfy an abnormal need for media attention. Again, he got what he wanted.

The people I feel sorry for are Bethune's loved ones in New Zealand. He could obviously care less about their feelings.

Well herin lies the quandry. On this issue of the sinking of the AG there are two opinions and only two as only two boats were involved. . That Bethune delibeatly placed his vessel in line to be rammed..............or the other that I tend to go with is that the Maru2 deliberaltly rammed the AG.

You are correct that there would be some risk for the AG................that I do not deny........................but no one on here is ascribing to the accident.as an accident.........................no..............the ramming was caused by the deliberate actions of one of the two parties involved.


Skyryder

[Tank]

Well herin lies the quandry. On this issue of the sinking of the AG there are two opinions and only two as only two boats were involved. . That Bethune delibeatly placed his vessel in line to be rammed..............or the other that I tend to go with is that the Maru2 deliberaltly rammed the AG.

You are correct that there would be some risk for the AG................that I do not deny........................but no one on here is ascribing to the accident.as an accident.........................no..............the ramming was caused by the deliberate actions of one of the two parties involved.


Skyryder

Again (as is per your norm) you miss the big point - what he is being charged with happened before the crash:

Firing missiles at people at sea (injuring someone) -

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Despite our greenie friends saying it started with the collision - it seems that the before the crash.

oh bugger.

"But most serious is the charge of causing injury which comes with a prison sentence of up to 15 years.

The charge relates to an incident three days before the powerboat Ady Gil and the whaler collided . Japan's coastguard alleges Bethune fired a rancid butter stink bomb which injured a crewman."

Still - I guess they have a argument why it was OK for them to be firing objects at crewmen who were legally going about their job (regardless of what you think about their job).

But I guess that is OK with you also.

I guess its fine to throw a brick at a car speeding to prevent them crashing and hurting someone??? Again - I hope that they throw the book at him.

[RT527]

Just to point out Japanese law, over there you have to prove you're innocent while in New Zealand you are innocent until prosecution prove you did it!.

JAPAN for one. Their system operates on the "Where there is smoke, there must be fire" theory. Take our system, reverse it and you will have a pretty fair picture of the Japanese system. For one thing, your "attorney does NOT have the RIGHT to converse with you and is treated as any other visitor would be. There is no habeas corpus rule and you do not have the right to confront your accusers nor the "right" to cross examine witnesses against you! In short, if you are charged you are guilty until YOU prove the contrary.

So PB has a shit fight on his hands that he can not possibly win.

You know The sea shepherd bunch of antagonists piss me off , if they were interested in saving anything , why are the running great big(and small) craft around leaking pollutants into the air and sea, why are the not in yachts ?.
In all this blabber we have only Found out one thing ...The end justify s the means ! As for the Ady Gil, its like taking a knife to a Gun fight absolutly the wrong vessel to be trying to block a boat that weighs 20 times there weight.

So that's a Second thing we have Found out...PB and SS are Idiot`s .

Skyrider I am thinking that you possibly need to objectively look at things people are saying , as you seem to have taken quite a few of them as an attack on you and your Beliefs which in turn has ...well led them to attack you personally.
most people on here have stated that they do not agree with the Japanese whaling activities, actually 99% have. What most people have said are the idiotic decisions that they have made( SS and PB ) in there endeavor to Highlight there Anti Whaling Stance, that has Led to Whats happening with PB in Japan. I too agree that he needs to own the consequences and decisions he's made.

[Pussy]

In summary.... it's quite clear that even Stevie Wonder would be able to see that Bethune has been caught with his dick hanging out in the breeze.
He is now going to have to face the consequences of his actions.
Tough shit

[Skyryder]

Just to point out Japanese law, over there you have to prove you're innocent while in New Zealand you are innocent until prosecution prove you did it!.



So PB has a shit fight on his hands that he can not possibly win.

You know The sea shepherd bunch of antagonists piss me off , if they were interested in saving anything , why are the running great big(and small) craft around leaking pollutants into the air and sea, why are the not in yachts ?.
In all this blabber we have only Found out one thing ...The end justify s the means ! As for the Ady Gil, its like taking a knife to a Gun fight absolutly the wrong vessel to be trying to block a boat that weighs 20 times there weight.

So that's a Second thing we have Found out...PB and SS are Idiot`s .

Skyrider I am thinking that you possibly need to objectively look at things people are saying , as you seem to have taken quite a few of them as an attack on you and your Beliefs which in turn has ...well led them to attack you personally.
most people on here have stated that they do not agree with the Japanese whaling activities, actually 99% have. What most people have said are the idiotic decisions that they have made( SS and PB ) in there endeavor to Highlight there Anti Whaling Stance, that has Led to Whats happening with PB in Japan. I too agree that he needs to own the consequences and decisions he's made.

Nope I don't think he will win either. He will be found guilty.........given max (just watch yay yays on here when that happens) Key will announce his release and take full credit and probably pronounce himself an international statesmen.


My take is that most do agree with it. This has been demonstrated both in their support of the Japanese and their hostile attitude to those that oppose them.

I am on record as having no opinion on whaling per se other than my belief that the Japanese whaling is in breach of the IWC moratorium.

Most on here believe that Bethune is deserving of what he gets. OK fair enough but if you had gone to the trouble reading my posts on most of this you would have discovered that I am equally concerned that this Government has not acted in an appropriate manner with the ramming of a NZ registered vessel………..and I again note that little has been said that after the ramming, deliberate or not the Maru 2 continued to water cannon a vessel in distress and fail to offer or give assistance to ‘stressed’ vessel. Still no comment from Key or McCully on this.

And I’m accused of ignoring issues???????

As for the personal stuff……………..you do jump to conclusions but since you are clearly in the pro Japanes camp that is understandable.

Objective enough for you??


Skyryder