Pete Bethune - Should have got off the boat when he was offered

[kwaka_crasher]

Pirates????????????............................... .........that shows just how far you are off the mark.

Encylopedia Britannica: Piracy is any robbery or other violent action, for private ends and without authorisation by public authority, committed on the seas or in the air outside the normal jurisdiction of any state.

Yep, Paul Watson and his sheeple are pirates.

[Indiana_Jones]

Mr. Bethune has made his bed, now he has to lie in it.

-Indy

[Trouser]

Boo hoo.

Thought his shit didn't stink. Now he'll smell it as the japanese guy pulls out. Possibly even taste it too.

[devnull]

Pirates????????????............................... .........that shows just how far you are off the mark.


Skyryder

Attacking and boarding a vessel in international waters... Yep. That's piracy.
It'll get you shot off the African coast...

The Japs could've saved themselves a lot of additional costs if they'd just hung the prick when they caught him. Something they'd be justified in doing too

[Skyryder]

Can you inform me of the actions that the SS took after sinking other vessels previously? Ignoring the fact that they actually targeted and attacked another vessel causing it to sink, did they help the stricken sailors? For all I know, they may have (highly unlikely), but the SS put those sailors lives in peril. How do you comment on that?

The issue is what happened with the sinking of the AG. Everything else is a side issue bought up by the Jap apologists to justifyi not only their belief as to the rights and wrong, of this is issue, but also to justify the actions of the whaler crew who continued with water cannons on a stricken vessels. Many on here condemn the action of Bethune by boarding the whaler and ignore the actions of the japanese crew who continued to water cannon the stricken vessel and refuse assistnce. If what you say is true then that is of equal concern.............but two wrongs do not make 'one' right and you post implies that you think otherwise.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Encylopedia Britannica: Piracy is any robbery or other violent action, for private ends and without authorisation by public authority, committed on the seas or in the air outside the normal jurisdiction of any state.

Yep, Paul Watson and his sheeple are pirates.

I would hardley describe actions to save whales for private ends piracy. In fact it is the actions of the whaler in the violent sinking in international waters that comes the closet to what your have posted.


Skyryder

[davereid]

The issue is what happened with the sinking of the AG.

I think it is an entirely different issue. And one that the AG could not actually be sure of winning either. They, by their own admission were deliberately and repeatedly crossing the bows of the jap ship, forcing it to take collision avoidance actions, thus forcing it off course. The AG was not hampered by these actions, as it is highly manoeuvrable. The japanese ship on the other hand would take ages to get back on course.

The japanese could easily argue that their boat was restricted in its ability to manoevure, and therefore actually had right-of-way. The law at sea, is not as simple as give way to your right - lots of other factors can be argued to be relevant.

But Mr. Bethune is in real trouble. The Japanese dont prosecute if they wont win, with a virtual 100% success rate for Jap prosecutors in Jap courts.

He was on a vessel that has a history of violent encounters with other boats, operated by an organisation considered terrorist by many governments.

The vessel he was on flew a pirate flag, and had rammed japanese boats in the past, as well as regularly attempting to damage steering equipment, foul propellors, and had been firing butyric acid at japanese crew members, causing blndness and facial injuries to Jap crewmen.

[kwaka_crasher]

I would hardley describe actions to save whales for private ends piracy. In fact it is the actions of the whaler in the violent sinking in international waters that comes the closet to what your have posted.

You might not, but then you're known for attempting to twist definitions to suit your beliefs.

The AG was deliberately moved into the path of the Shonan Maru No. 2 at the last minute, as can be seen from the wake behind the AG immediately prior to the collision.

How about the many violent attacks and sinkings caused intentionally by Paul Watson's pirates in international waters? Why do you remain silent on those?

I'll tell you why. It's because you're a one-eyed wanker and to you the end justifies the means but rational people don't buy that bullshit.

[Tank]

There is no doubt in my mind that the boarding was to highlight the ramming of the AG.

well - he did that when he boarded. He should have taken the chance to get off when offered.

As for the ramming of the AG - innocent until proven guilty I believe is the rule - of course you are more then a little one eyed on this subject.

Again the SS are terrorist - they are proud of the boats they have rammed or sunk using explosives. You seem to think that the ramming of the AG was the 'instigating' action - ignoring the behavior of PB and the SS prior to that.

Anyway - you can be as biased as you like - personally Id be happy to see the SS all up on terrorist charges (bombing a boat in a port - not unlike the rainbow warrior) - hang a few of the fuckers.

[Skyryder]

I think it is an entirely different issue. And one that the AG could not actually be sure of winning either. They, by their own admission were deliberately and repeatedly crossing the bows of the jap ship, forcing it to take collision avoidance actions, thus forcing it off course. The AG was not hampered by these actions, as it is highly manoeuvrable. The japanese ship on the other hand would take ages to get back on course.

The japanese could easily argue that their boat was restricted in its ability to manoevure, and therefore actually had right-of-way. The law at sea, is not as simple as give way to your right - lots of other factors can be argued to be relevant.

But Mr. Bethune is in real trouble. The Japanese dont prosecute if they wont win, with a virtual 100% success rate for Jap prosecutors in Jap courts.

He was on a vessel that has a history of violent encounters with other boats, operated by an organisation considered terrorist by many governments.

The vessel he was on flew a pirate flag, and had rammed japanese boats in the past, as well as regularly attempting to damage steering equipment, foul propellors, and had been firing butyric acid at japanese crew members, causing blndness and facial injuries to Jap crewmen.

As to the casue of who is at falult with the ramming that has been covewred in other threads with no satisfactour agreement either way.


There is some doubt that the Jolly Rodger was actully used to signafy a pirate vessel. It may well be a myth from Hollywood. Teh skull and cross bones is a Masonic emblam and has nothing to do with piracy. Still I will concede your point but do not believe that the AG was engagded in what is traditionla pirat activities and this is the same for the terrorist activites the SS people are accused of.

Bottom line Jap whaler ignored protocol with a stricken vessel.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

well - he did that when he boarded. He should have taken the chance to get off when offered.

As for the ramming of the AG - innocent until proven guilty I believe is the rule - of course you are more then a little one eyed on this subject.

Again the SS are terrorist - they are proud of the boats they have rammed or sunk using explosives. You seem to think that the ramming of the AG was the 'instigating' action - ignoring the behavior of PB and the SS prior to that.

Anyway - you can be as biased as you like - personally Id be happy to see the SS all up on terrorist charges (bombing a boat in a port - not unlike the rainbow warrior) - hang a few of the fuckers.

Don't think I am any more bised than you.................but then you would no doubt disagree and consider yourself the epitomy of reason


Skyryder

[davereid]

As to the casue of who is at falult with the ramming that has been covewred in other threads with no satisfactour agreement either way.


There is some doubt that the Jolly Rodger was actully used to signafy a pirate vessel. It may well be a myth from Hollywood. Teh skull and cross bones is a Masonic emblam and has nothing to do with piracy. Still I will concede your point but do not believe that the AG was engagded in what is traditionla pirat activities and this is the same for the terrorist activites the SS people are accused of.

Bottom line Jap whaler ignored protocol with a stricken vessel.


Skyryder

Im sure that the Jolly Roger was chosen by SS because it was "the pirate flag", not because they are all Masons.

All terrorists are sure that the cause they support means they are not terrorists, they are freedom fighters.

If you think the cause is the most important thing, then they are not terrorists. If you think the method is the important thing, then shooting at policemen, ramming ships and planting limpet mines may qualify as terrorisim.

Ignoring protocol ?

I'm not sure that happened. As I understand it, the japs offered assistance which was declined.

The issues really are, that the japs kept up the water cannon for 45 seconds after the collision, and didnt offer assistance for some 4-5 minutes.

But, if I were captain of the jap ship, my first responsibilities are for my crew, and my ship.
Only after my engineers have assured me that my vessel is seaworthy and I have reset a safe course, ascertained the safety of my crew, and established full control of my vessel, would I look to assist others. And if it took me half a minute to call off the dogs, I was busy, and certainly did it as promptly as could be expected.

[Pedrostt500]

Attacking and boarding a vessel in international waters... Yep. That's piracy.
It'll get you shot off the African coast...

The Japs could've saved themselves a lot of additional costs if they'd just hung the prick when they caught him. Something they'd be justified in doing too

Nah they should have keel hauled him.

[oldrider]

No ones asking him to agree with Bethune but it's a pity he can not give others that in their 'goodwill' have given him. I think Tank is a shallow man that has run aground in the sea of life and can not get off the shoals that he creates for himself. Now that's 'brilliant' even if I do say so myself. Skyryder

Bethunes behaviour in driving his boat in front of the Japanese vessel is akin to someone throwing themselves in front of a train and then "blaming the bloody train"!

The rules of the sea are agreed to by every seafaring nation to combat confusion, he was out there, hell bent on creating it!

I think his arrogant stupidity has done more to harm the anti whaling effort than to help it!

[Tank]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Despite our greenie friends saying it started with the collision - it seems that the before the crash.

oh bugger.

"But most serious is the charge of causing injury which comes with a prison sentence of up to 15 years.

The charge relates to an incident three days before the powerboat Ady Gil and the whaler collided . Japan's coastguard alleges Bethune fired a rancid butter stink bomb which injured a crewman."

Still - I guess they have a argument why it was OK for them to be firing objects at crewmen who were legally going about their job (regardless of what you think about their job).