ATGATT. Why? It doesn't affect anyone else?

[Bikemad]

Why should tax money go to someone riding a motorcycle instead of driving a car

Freedom

sorry jonno...........dont get ya post.............all im sayin is if you cause the crash/accident/carnage..........what ever you wanna call it.............whether in a car or on a bike and you havent taken all practable steps to protect yourself or your drivin or ridin like a clown.........why the fuck should i pay towards your recovery..............the innocents im happy to contribute towards

[MSTRS:Me]

Tempting not to stop in cases like that isn't it. You didn't cause it. It wasn't you who didn't put the safety gear on. It wasn't you didn't know how to corner it properly. It wasn't you outside your license class. But it was you who has to mop up the mess and it was you who had to pay for it. You do everything right yet you still have to pick up the tab.

You can't fix the world. Let the idiots burn and look after your mates. Better they ponder their lesson while they sit there and bleed on their own.

Steve

Knobend. Should we play 20 questions at an accident scene with the injured? Starting with "Were you wearing proper gear?"...No...Oh well sucks to be you...bye.

That was your daughter lying there, with broken ribs and kneecap, head injured, sundry gouges including one down to the bone...and someone who could have helped, didn't, because they have your attitude.

[yungatart]

Compulsory ATGATT. Then what ? Compulsory ABS, compulsory air bags, compulsory leg protectors. Then what ? Compulsory third wheel ? How about a fourth wheel and ban bikes all together, seeing as ATGATT won't change the stats.

I always wear all the gear, but there is no way I want to see legislation forcing me to.

And not only will he feel the effects long after, so will you. I've been fortunate enough never to have seen or had to help at an "accident" scene. I can only imagine it going through your head just before you go to sleep. It would disturb me for some time seeing something like that. One reason I am reluctant to go group riding..

Actually, TBH, I am just pissed off that we couldn't finish our ride on our new wheels. I slept perfectly well, thank you, although given the spread of debris and the damage done to the bike, I could have been at the scene of a fatal very easilly. That would have affected me more....

Tempting not to stop in cases like that isn't it. You didn't cause it. It wasn't you who didn't put the safety gear on. It wasn't you didn't know how to corner it properly. It wasn't you outside your license class. But it was you who has to mop up the mess and it was you who had to pay for it. You do everything right yet you still have to pick up the tab.

You can't fix the world. Let the idiots burn and look after your mates. Better they ponder their lesson while they sit there and bleed on their own.

Steve

I am an ex nurse. As such, I took the Hippocratic Oath. I am honour bound to help. Even without that, I am a member of the human race and I feel it is only common decency to help...yes, even you with your appaling attitude would receive help from me in the same circumstances...it is not my job to determine who is worthy of care.

[Edbear]

What has that got to do with what sparked this thread? The crashed rider was on his own...it was a group of us that stopped to help etc.

Some people here don't seem to get the sentiment behind YT's post. Her point has nothing to do with what gear, or lack of, that people choose to wear. It has everything to do with attitude. The one that goes "I'll wear as much or little as I like and it's nothing to do with you" When it is patently obvious that in myriad ways, gear choice does have an effect on others. Personal choice should NOT be defended on the grounds that no-one else is 'hurt'.

Some people needed that reminder. It is natural to stop and help and one thing that makes us human. Members can bleat all they like about personal rights and freedoms, and certainly I don't need the Law to convince me to wear appropriate gear or ride to the conditions. As one poster said, education is the key, but too many people have no interest in being educated. Witness the drongo's on TV and in the news who know very well the consequences, they just don't care.

That is why lawmakers believe that legislation will help. By making something a prosecutable offence with financial and social consequences, many people will, either reluctantly or willingly, comply and thereby save some grief.

I always wear all the gear, but there is no way I want to see legislation forcing me to.

Actually, TBH, I am just pissed off that we couldn't finish our ride on our new wheels. I slept perfectly well, thank you, although given the spread of debris and the damage done to the bike, I could have been at the scene of a fatal very easilly. That would have affected me more....

I am an ex nurse. As such, I took the Hippocratic Oath. I am honour bound to help. Even without that, I am a member of the human race and I feel it is only common decency to help...yes, even you with your appaling attitude would receive help from me in the same circumstances...it is not my job to determine who is worthy of care.

People such as yourself don't need a law, and therefore the law is of little consequence to you, (or me), as we only do what we consider right anyway. So it is of no concern to me whether they introduce it or not.

Compassion and empathy are uniquely human traits and it is a hard person who could ignore human suffering in the situation you had to deal with. Sure you might be mad at the idiot and even tell him off while you attend to him, but you would still do all in your power to help.

[Owl]

Let the idiots burn and look after your mates.

I'd be surprised if you had any with that attitude DB!

[caseye]

I care. But I'm not going to run after every biker I see not wearing gloves, or riding in shorts, or pillioning some young lady attired in jaunty CFM boots, jeans and a tee-shirt. For the same reason that I no longer give a shit about cagers who text while driving or who insist on having wheels on the other side of the centre line.

The Makers of Bad Laws will be along shortly to mandate standards of attire for bikers, which some bikers will ignore.

I wear what I believe is appropriate motorcycling apparel. I don't wear leather trousers because I think they're too hot in summer and too cold in winter; and I don't believe in fluoro vests because they're naff.

Bike shops sell fingerless gloves, openface helmets (including those stupid turtle lids), tee-shirts, sleeveless vests and chaps. Therefore it must be OK for bikers to wear these.

Hitcher, I know what you are saying and I live by the darwinian theory, but we motorcyclists that do use the gear,(any and all of it be it leather, cordura, synthetic etc doesn't matter) that do abide by the rules of our roads(Ok not all the time) are getting tarred with the same brush.
I've said it before, it's getting close to a time when we voluntarily introduce a minimum standard of Gear or let the cage driving bike hating polies make it for us.
Given that as an option I for one would be glad of seeing a minimum gear requirement for anyone riding a motorcycle, said gear to be produced at time of WOF, and as I've also said before, if it's proved that it was not being used and a rider crashes.
No ACC!
Tough???
Maybe, who cares about a dumb arse who wont protect themsleves for the sake of wearing readily available, inexpensive protective gear.
Not me, not anymore.
yungatart I'm behind you 100% on this message, it does affect others all the way down the chain, it is time we collectively pulled our socks up and cleaned up the appalling lack of respect for themselves and other roads users shown by these hot shot phangers!

[MSTRS:Me]

...appalling lack of respect for themselves and other roads users shown by these hot shot phangers!

This particular 'hot shot phanger' didn't look so flash with his shoes gone (only found one), his (vinyl) jacket found some 50 feet away from where he lay and his bike looking like it'd been the target of a rugby team weilding sledgehammers...

[marty]

So did 'this' guy survive? Were his injuries (fatal or not) any different because of his gear (ATGATT is the core of your post) or was it his experience/attitude that primarily got him hurt?

[Owl]

I've said it before, it's getting close to a time when we voluntarily introduce a minimum standard of Gear or let the cage driving bike hating polies make it for us.
Given that as an option I for one would be glad of seeing a minimum gear requirement for anyone riding a motorcycle, said gear to be produced at time of WOF, and as I've also said before, if it's proved that it was not being used and a rider crashes.
No ACC!
Tough???
Maybe, who cares about a dumb arse who wont protect themsleves for the sake of wearing readily available, inexpensive protective gear.
Not me, not anymore.

Let's just ban motorcycles, sports, DIY'ers and all recreational activities. Oh and better ban the work force too, cause they do stupid shit from time to time.

Fuck it, why should I have to pay for the 8 year old who climbs a tree without a safety harness?

[MSTRS:Me]

His injuries could indeed have been life threatening (the broken ribs, anyway) but the rest could've been non-existent if he'd been wearing proper gear. It was his speed, inability and probable attitude that caused him to bin it in the first place. He was lucky it wasn't much worse.
There are corners dotted about the place, that are little different to that one, but TPTB see fit to install safety devices such as armco or cheesecutter...

[caseye]

Let's just ban motorcycles, sports, DIY'ers and all recreational activities. Oh and better ban the work force too, cause they do stupid shit from time to time.

Fuck it, why should I have to pay for the 8 year old who climbs a tree without a safety harness?

Hell why Not! That way there'd be no carnage and no one to blsme so the insurance.Govt companies can go sue them for the "at wrong" fees.
The attitude of people who ride stupidly and don't wear at least minimum gear is what needs to change.
It isn't going to at the present moment because there is no incentive for it to do so.
As riders ourselves who do take riding responsibly it is up to us to do what we can to educate those who don't know or dont care as much as we can before the Govt does get involved and simply legislate.
I am arguing that if nothing is done by us and as many of us as possible as soon as possible that this is exactly what will happen.
Legislation that blanket covers all aspects and all intelligences of bike riders and rding.
No personal choice, no freedom to do anything without looking to big brother.
Big brother wants everyone that odes dangerous stuff to screw up so they can step in and make laws.
if we can get the bulk of our fellow motorcyclists to voluntarily abide by a minimum standard of gear to be worn we'd be stopping Big brother not giving him a green light to simply legislate us off the road as you seem to be suggesting.
W've had freedom for a long time, whats happening to it these days is that everytime we turn around a litlte bit more is being taken off us and the reasoning is simple, if you won't do it responsibly we'll do it for you!
I'd rather they didnt.

[yungatart]

So did 'this' guy survive? Were his injuries (fatal or not) any different because of his gear (ATGATT is the core of your post) or was it his experience/attitude that primarily got him hurt?

As far as I know, he survived.
But you misunderstand, ATGATT is NOT the core of my post. It is that 'your' actions can/do impact on others. Your decision to wear what you choose can devastate others who have to clean up the mess.


One more thing, I suspect (although I do not know for a fact), that I was the only one of about 15 people at that site who had First Aid Training.
Sooner or later, you are going to need it. We waited over an hour for the professionals to get there...it is a long time, if you have no idea what to do.

[caseye]

As far as I know, he survived.
But you misunderstand, ATGATT is NOT the core of my post. It is that 'your' actions can/do impact on others. Your decision to wear what you choose can devastate others who have to clean up the mess.


One more thing, I suspect (although I do not know for a fact), that I was the only one of about 15 people at that site who had First Aid Training.
Sooner or later, you are going to need it. We waited over an hour for the professionals to get there...it is a long time, if you have no idea what to do.

Scary isn't it? to think that it can take that long for the ambo's to arrive ( no fault of thiers, theres simply not enough of them out there) and as YT has said if you are someone arriving at that scene and you do know first aid, you are quite possibly the only thing standing between that person and death.
I could never ride/drive past an accident, I've stopped at so many and assisted ( first aid and advanced, many years ago) at so many i've lost count.
Who was right or worng never comes into it, who's in the most need of attention whats happening on the roadway around the scene, who's called, keeps calling for emergency services, who has what is needed to help stabilise the patient/s that all kicks in and off you go.
Once I had a doctor turn up at a scene and ask who needed what, I told him what each of the three people involved had had done and why, he was mildly impressed and told one of the three that but for the way his position and injury had beenn handled by me and a couple of others he'd be DOA. Ruptured spleen. Lucky boy that we did not roll him over from already being in the recovery position though still with the front end of a landcruiser resting on his hip. We lifted the cruiser and slid him out from under it, keeping him still and on his side with blankets etc from neighbours.
He was, until my wifes bike accident(debateable, brought down by criminal negligence really) recently the first medically trained person I've ever had show up at an accident.The brilliant Lady who saw it happen in front of her was a nurse from Muddlemore and she got stuck right, I stood back and simply assisted, bliss that was.
yungatarts comments are so bang on it's scary, attitude can be changed, education is one of the answers, legislation would be a disaster, but with no one steering a concerted effort to change attitudes it is Govt who will eventually step in and legislate.
If we dont want that to happen we have to convince those who would ride wthout thought for their own safety and the consequences for all the people down the line, those attending their accident,the ambo's, the firemen and women, the Police officers,the nurses, the doctors and the caregivers who are with them for months afterwards(.If they're lucky) that they need to think ahead and of others.
I've not yet memtioned their family, their friends, their loved ones, who all have their lives thrown into complete turmoil for days, weeks, months, years on end, all because they! didn't think responsibly, or worse simply couldn't be stuffed regardless.
Attitude is everything.

[RDjase]

As far as I know, he survived.
But you misunderstand, ATGATT is NOT the core of my post. It is that 'your' actions can/do impact on others. Your decision to wear what you choose can devastate others who have to clean up the mess.


One more thing, I suspect (although I do not know for a fact), that I was the only one of about 15 people at that site who had First Aid Training.
Sooner or later, you are going to need it. We waited over an hour for the professionals to get there...it is a long time, if you have no idea what to do.

It was a long time waiting for the ambo, It didnt help that there were 2 bike crashes off 2 differnt roads that connect to Argyll road at the same time, plus a fire and a car crash in ypuk.
Busy day for emergencys in CHB,

All the 1st aid i know is the the ABC and recovery position, It was hard work keeping him concious after the delays with the ambo,
Very lucky man, he could have quite easily gone thru tha fence at high speed and been killed, lucky he went thru the long grass for 100mtrs and didnt get hit by his bike or ended up on the road and taken out by a car, OR that we didnt end up wearing his bike flying thru the air if we arrived a few minutes earlier

Heres the pics of his bike, dont know how too put them on here with a link

[Ronin]

Tempting not to stop in cases like that isn't it.

No. Not even a little bit. I would suggest that if it is tempting to you that you seek help

You didn't cause it. It wasn't you who didn't put the safety gear on. It wasn't you didn't know how to corner it properly. It wasn't you outside your license class. But it was you who has to mop up the mess and it was you who had to pay for it. You do everything right yet you still have to pick up the tab.

You can't fix the world. Let the idiots burn and look after your mates. Better they ponder their lesson while they sit there and bleed on their own.

Steve

You truly disturb me Stevey Boy, far behond the normal "oh look DB is a dick" disturb. I'm not sure I have ever seen someone with such a lack of empathy. You know it's not normal aye?