Collateral murder

[mashman]

127x magnification daylight cameras can read a car numberplate 4.2km away.

And yet a camera can be seen as an RPG?

It's the above quote that gets me... All I could think of when watching the video was that could be a gun, nahh, oh maybe that's an RPG, nahh... really not too sure who was carrying what etc... BUT, if the technology is available to read a licence plate from 4.2k's away... then they may want to turn that functionality on next time before they start shooting...

War, huh.... what is it good for...

[Ronin]

And yet a camera can be seen as an RPG?

The overwhelming impression I got from the video is that these guys went there looking for someone to shoot at. Note the comments directed at the wounded man trying to crawl away. "Go on, reach for a gun, give me a reason to shoot." They were checking for permission to fire before they thought someone aimed a camera, I mean RPG at them.

[Genestho]

War, huh.... what is it good for...

Those that are making money from the industry of war, regardless of the little people!

[Dave Lobster]

War, huh.... what is it good for...

Removing Mudslums from the surface of the earth.

[mashman]

The overwhelming impression I got from the video is that these guys went there looking for someone to shoot at. Note the comments directed at the wounded man trying to crawl away. "Go on, reach for a gun, give me a reason to shoot." They were checking for permission to fire before they thought someone aimed a camera, I mean RPG at them.

I can excuse the use of their language... adrenalin pumping through your entire being because you could die any minute... makes perfect sense to me... it's war... but they did go looking for a fight...

Those that are making money from the industry of war, regardless of the little people!

Surely not... I thought the reason behind the war was to encourage yet another country to adopt a Democractic model of leadership (it works for the western world doesn't it )...

Removing Mudslums from the surface of the earth.

Funnily enough I don't see the Mudslums as being as much of a threat as they are made out to be...

I have no doubt most, if not all, of my own morals would be severely questioned if I was at war... BUT, forcing your style of "leadership" on an entirely different culture has to be questioned above all else... is Democracy really the answer... not at the price "we're" (read the world as a whole) paying... not for me anyway...

[Dave Lobster]

Funnily enough I don't see the Mudslums as being as much of a threat as they are made out to be...

Try living somewhere where the busses or trains get blown up by them.

BUT, forcing your style of "leadership" on an entirely different culture has to be questioned above all else... is Democracy really the answer... not at the price "we're" (read the world as a whole) paying... not for me anyway...

Any culture that would stone a woman to death for being raped, or sleeping with whoever she damn well pleases is not a culture that any civilised race would tolerate.

I would agree that forcing the NZ style of leadership on anyone would be a bad thing. Nobody would want a handful of loud maori dictating the direction of millions of $ worth of their money.

[Dave Lobster]

This sort of thread reminds me of that line in Full Metal Jacket, where the fellow asks Joker if he's seen any combat.
Seen a little on TV..

Anyone here sat in a heli, with rounds flying past you? Or just seen it on a youtube clip happening to someone else, from the comfort of your own chair.
It's a lot easier to make judgement calls on someone else's actions when you've never had a weapon pointed at you.

[Swoop]

And yet a camera can be seen as an RPG?

It's the above quote that gets me... All I could think of when watching the video was that could be a gun, nahh, oh maybe that's an RPG, nahh... really not too sure who was carrying what etc... BUT, if the technology is available to read a licence plate from 4.2k's away... then they may want to turn that functionality on next time before they start shooting...

The "functionality" is always on. The way the people were walking shows that they are unaware of the Apache in the vicinity, so the magnification is probably quite large. Anyone carrying something under their arm or slung over a shoulder is investigated relatively thoroughly prior to engagement, but there is a culture of hiding any weapon a talli-tubby may be carrying.
A common practice for locals, is to "flap" their dishdasha up and down to show helicopters that they are not concealing anything.

[mashman]

Try living somewhere where the busses or trains get blown up by them.

Heh... yeah no other religion/culture does that to their own people eh!!! Basques, IRA, Disgruntled US students etc... yeah, it's so different in the "civilised" world...

Any culture that would stone a woman to death for being raped, or sleeping with whoever she damn well pleases is not a culture that any civilised race would tolerate.

I would agree that forcing the NZ style of leadership on anyone would be a bad thing. Nobody would want a handful of loud maori dictating the direction of millions of $ worth of their money.

And yet there are so many other countries with similar "problems", those that cleanse their society that noone ever bothers with... where there any other countries that could have been Democratised during the 12 years between Iraq wars? Zim for 1.

Anyone here sat in a heli, with rounds flying past you? Or just seen it on a youtube clip happening to someone else, from the comfort of your own chair.
It's a lot easier to make judgement calls on someone else's actions when you've never had a weapon pointed at you.

True, Judgement calls are easy with hindsight... and i'd kill if it came down to it too (maybe)... we train soldiers to do an ugly job for stupid reasons and at times mistakes are made, I don't have a problem with that... but being THAT eager to kill is something else...

[imdying]

I totally saw an RPG. Average shooting, but job done in any case.


Assuming I had a million dollar attack helicopter, had spent the last 5 years in training being told I was the most bad arse killing machine ever to walk God's green earth, and were pumped up on state sanctioned meth to keep me sharp, then for sure I'd be letting rip at anything that looked even remotely hostile, it's a freakin war. If it's good enough to go to war and kill people, then it's good enough to do so indiscriminately. If you don't hate the other side enough to do that, then you don't hate them enough to stick your nose in their business.

[Katman]

And yet there are so many other countries with similar "problems", those that cleanse their society that noone ever bothers with... where there any other countries that could have been Democratised during the 12 years between Iraq wars? Zim for 1.

Fortunately for Mugabe - Zimbabwe doesn't have any oil.

[mashman]

Fortunately for Mugabe - Zimbabwe doesn't have any oil.

Cynic... they have precious gems that need mining though... according to the latest intel

[EJK]

AK-47 my ass

[SPman]

So, if it wasn't press in a war zone, why did they risk their lives to pick up men killed by American forces? Joy ride perhaps?

It was a guy taking his 2 kids to tutoring (seeing as how all the schools were closed) who happened to be driving past. It is a city - their city and most people try and carry on with life despite being under attack from a foreign invading force. I guess invaders don't publish maps of where there will be action today, so avoid these areas, folks!

we train soldiers to do an ugly job for stupid reasons and at times mistakes are made, I don't have a problem with that... but being THAT eager to kill is something else...

And the relish with which the authorities cover it up. If there hadn't been Reuters guys involved, this would just be, yet another, unreported attack on a group of people, in their own country and city, who might, or might not have been "insurgents", but, to the invaders, were just objects to shoot! I suppose they should consider themselves lucky, not to have been a wedding party - they seem to be fair game, ATM.

Any culture that would stone a woman to death for being raped, or sleeping with whoever she damn well pleases is not a culture that any civilised race would tolerate.

So you think it is alright to use armed force to invade those countries on any pretext, or none, and kill anyone who objects, and that makes for a civilised race?
I'm not sure which is the more obscene!

[Dave Lobster]

So you think it is alright to use armed force to invade those countries on any pretext, or none, and kill anyone who objects, and that makes for a civilised race?
I'm not sure which is the more obscene!

Nope. But I'd say invading a country to stop them harbouring terrorists that are hell (!) bent on commiting acts of terrorism in your own country is a pretty smart idea. Securing your country's continued supply of oil seems a top move too.

Invading/peacekeeping in a country to stop them ethnically cleansing half the population is also a good reason. Maybe the 'mercin presence in the former Yugoslavia has passed from a lot of people's minds now. Hundreds of thousands of people were wiped out there too. But the press didn't get their hands on it - too dangerous for them to be there. The fighters there weren't averse to killing the press.. so the armchair generals didn't get to see any of it.

Seen any combat? SEEN A LITTLE ON TV