The chance of a lifetime: You are asked to start a bike shop. How should it be done?

[bogan]

So if you were to start up a bike shop, you would sell parts at cost, and provide your customers with a bike to use while you're doing a $30 WOF...?

How long do you think you would last?

not cost, but a similar price to what online shops sell parts for, get more business that way; shops give test rides for free anyway, why not while the wof is getting done? Scooters at least would be very helpful, ill ask my local if I can borrow a courtesy scooter next time, be interesting to see what they reckon!

[bogan]

Ok, how about when a ''customer'' walks into a shop and spends a lot of time trying on clothing, being helped by the staff , in the full knowledge that they are going to not buy it there ( despite being offered a deal ) but off the net?/ And then when there is a subsequent sizing or warranty issue taking it to the dealer and having the temerity to ask them to exchange or sort it out?
Hard to believe but it happens often. Cheapness often comes at a price.
I look after my customers if they are honest with me. If they are clearly using me they will get short shift.

thats exactly what i was meaning, don't put a huge margin on parts/gear, and people wont buy them elsewhere!

I realise there would still need to be a small margin on shop floor space required for the gear and parts etc, but small being the operative word.

Course then you would have to increase the prices in the workshop to compensate, but it would be interesting to see how much, obviously you would have more profit from increased gear and parts sales (shorterm before the others catch on), and the increase in workshop cost would be offset by the decrease in parts cost so job cost should stay about the same.

[Owl]

Thanks to the ones who have sofar contributd in the spirit this thread was intended: To tell the shop owners what we, the customer, wants. This will not be a rule or a law. It will be an eye opener (I hope) where you might learn something. Keep an open mind and leave the "it won't work" out.

So, what would I want from a bike shop?
- Service. Be treated like I was actually important!
- Knowledge. And if it is not there, the ablility to say "sorry, I do not know, but I will find out"
- Ability to find solutions to problems I have.
- Be prepared to explain to me what is wrong and what the options are.
- Do what they say they will do. No false promises!
- I would want them to make a living, and so I would be prepared to pay a markup on bits and a fair hourly rate.
- Get involved in the community. Be part of what goes on.

There, a start.

Good start and I'll add:

Show discretion! Alarm bells start ringing when a motorcycle shop ute is parked outside the "Warehouse", loading up with copious amounts of budget car oil.

[Hurrie]

if you're gonna fix something on the bike and you find a problem somewhere else on the bike, i'd prefer to be told before you decide to start fixing that other problem so that when i go to pick up the bike i dont have to pay an extra freaking $200 for something that wasnt worth fixing!!

[Grubber]

My experience is that i get a great service from the bike salesman and a lousy service in the workshop. So what i do is buy the bike off the guy that gives me the great deal and take the thing elsewhere to get it fixed. Salesman is a good link to the workshop for warranty work as his reputation is on the line when it goes in. Generally i contact sales guy and he tees up workshop and lender bike for the day. Works out pretty good.
In a nutshell i think service will sell me every time and i don't mind paying a bit more for it.
As for parts>>>> I get them where i can get them cheaper but still don't forgo any quality if possible.
Yep SERVICE gets me every time.

[The Baron]

I would like to see shops look after the new and the young riders. Treat them with value now when they are starting out and they will stay for years and many bikes over the long term.

[Snails pace]

So, what would I want from a bike shop?
- Service. Be treated like I was actually important!
- Knowledge. And if it is not there, the ablility to say "sorry, I do not know, but I will find out"
- Ability to find solutions to problems I have.
- Be prepared to explain to me what is wrong and what the options are.
- Do what they say they will do. No false promises!
- I would want them to make a living, and so I would be prepared to pay a markup on bits and a fair hourly rate.
- Get involved in the community. Be part of what goes on.

There, a start.

The above are very important for me. Fortunately my local shop thinks the same. If they cannot deliver they say so. No bull no rubbish. My first bike i wanted to buy from them they could not deliver until the next shipment, said so and suggested to look other places. My 2nd bike I waited for them. Service, friendliness, honesty my big three. Happy to pay more for these. Was in Auckland recently looking for new helmet/boots and left after visiting many major shops with the feeling they were more into self image. Perhaps age and senility has something to do with me thinking this way.

[MSTRS:Me]

Can I just say that although many people's experience in (bike)shops is that you are an inconvenience to the staff, when in fact you are the reason for their existence, sometimes you have to make the effort too...to 'get to know' them. Certainly works round these parts...

[Ixion]

Course then you would have to increase the prices in the workshop to compensate

That is an interesting point. I have long considered that trades in NZ (generally, not justbike or motor trade) heavily undercost their labour. Then rely on a 'profit' on parts, derived from a discount off a highly inflated retail price. This only works of course as long as the market is small enough and local enough tomaintain the cartel. That assumption broke with the Internet. Online shops realized they could buy at that discount, and resell for a good profit and make money, so long as they did not have to subsidize the labour deficit of a workshop. Hence, Internet purchasing.

The correct response to the internet would be to adjust the costing model to achieve full recovery of labour costs and burden, and charge parts out at cost plus a sensible margin .

If we assume the full prime cost of a mechanic to be $100000 per year ( I realize that they don't get paid that, but there are many other costs in the prime cost and it's a conveniently round number, not too inaccurate); and assume a 50% charge out rate ( in my experience anything greater relies on creative time sheet entries); and a 50% burden; then that means a true charge out rate of $200 an hourroughly. This is the real rate for mechanics time. Anyone charging much Lessie relying on subsidizing the workshop from other sources , usually part sales.

[=cJ=]

It's a little dumb thing, but I really like it when I walk into a shop and am greeted by my name.

I don't care how flash the shop looks in terms of decor/style/whatever, I guess as long as it's tidy.

I like it when I get a nice replacement bike while mine's in the shop (I got a nice M50 to play with last time, which was bloody mint!), and I really like texts to let me know how things are going if it's in there a few days, or if I'm waiting on a part.

I'd like all stuff to be available overnight (though I realise this is possibly impossibly...) so I'm not having to wait for a distributor somewhere elsewhere to sort their shit out, though again, if I'm being kept up to date with progress on an order, this isn't such an issue.

I guess I like to feel that the shop is working for me, and that I'm important to them.

[Robert Taylor]

Hi Robert. You are not helping here... Can you please stay out from this thread.

There was no intention to hijack the thread as such, so Ill say my piece and be done with it. I can see both sides of the story and there have been a couple of very good posts citing reasonable expectations of expecting friendly knowledgable staff etc and realistic prices. But there are also totally unrealistic expectations as follows:
1) $40 per hour charge out rates, is the guy that stated that living on Mars? Do the maths, pay the mechanic a minimum of $25 per hour then pay his acc levies etc on top of that, Kiwi saver,power, phones, gas plant rental, cleaning expendables, workshop plant, training budget , losses incurred with warranty claim reimbursements (ALWAYS ) etc etc etc. NET LOSS. Yes there are car mechanics here and there charging out at around $40 per hour and some bike mechanics but the most typical scenario is they may be operating out of home and ''tin sheds'' Nothing wrong with tin sheds but if a lot of these guys havent worked it out already ( when they get their accounts done ) they are doing little better than subsistence. But they are great guys! They will eek out a meagre living just to keep their customers happy!!! I WISH PEOPLE THAT POSTED ON HERE WOULD DO THEIR HOMEWORK AND ACTUALLY THINK BEFORE MAKING SUCH SIMPLISTIC STATEMENTS
2)STOCKING MORE PARTS, Nice thought but in such a small and fragmented economy stock turn is a whole lot less than in bigger economies and its easy to ''die with parts''. Too many models and too many parts. We want all the trappings of the western world but have only a tiny population to try and support such an appetite. Any accountant worth his salt will explain.
3) PRICES THE SAME AS ON THE NET. Heck Ive stated the reasons why this is largely difficult to achieve in MANY threads, does no-one read these or do they refuse to believe ( as an industry insider being brutally candid ) what I am saying. Big margins, yeah right!

This is in no way being negative, its just stating the realities of supply, demand and the very real difficulty of making a respectable profit.

BUT DONT LISTEN TO ME, IVE ONLY HAD 35 YEARS IN THE TRADE IN BOTH WHOLESALE AND RETAIL, I KNOW NOTHING.

There are ways and means but its threatening the traditional wholesale and retail etiquette, and to respond to other oversimplistic statements that have popped up every now and then dealers cannot deal directly with the manufacturers, manufacturers insist on having a distributor to handle distribution, profile, dealer network, advertising and technical backup in each appointed country.

The reality is there is a lot of internet purchasing currently happening especially from the States because their dollar is very weak, they have people to be able to justify low margins / high stock turn and theres a lot of discount dumping happening. And Our Government is not taxing everything coming into the country, which they damn well should be. OUR DOLLAR SHOULD BE A LOT WEAKER TO HELP OUR PRIMARY WEALTH PRODUCERS, the guys that can generate export returns and provide meaningful to help economic recovery

Perhaps Im old fashioned and one of the realities of being like that is having a concern for the long term health of the country. No apologies for that.

[Headbanger]

There are ways and means but its threatening the traditional wholesale and retail etiquette, and to respond to other oversimplistic statements that have popped up every now and then dealers cannot deal directly with the manufacturers, manufacturers insist on having a distributor to handle distribution, profile, dealer network, advertising and technical backup in each appointed country.

Market forces.

Resistance is futile.

Even for manufacturers, and layers of middlemen.

[firefighter]

Ok hopefully a new one for you.

Easy to get to with good parking. (May not be an issue if it's being opened in HB!) I wo'nt go near AMPS because of this. (oh and because of the dicks/bad attitude homos....i'm not the first to say it)

A big area to move around in. I hate going into poky little shops....so a decent sized store.

Lots of selection, the more shiny stuff the betterer.......ie. more than one type of helmet, heaps of different choices for stuff, gear, tank protectors, bags, expensive and good quality cheap gear, lubes etcetc, selection is so key for me.

Staff that do'nt "stare" at you or make you feel like an dork. (you know the young dick with ears guys you sometimes get) Just friendly without the attitude.

If you stock a Shoei helmet, you also stock iridium/tinted visors and pinlock etcetcetc that go with the helmet, or can source some in a reasonable timeframe. A lot can be said if you can post it locally for free too if it has to be ordered in....(for small stuff)
Basically the goodies to go with the purchase, it can be added to a sale......and is so freakin handy for the customer. If I can get a cheapish tint visor as part of a deal (or whathaveyou) I definitely will. (or those fucken covers on the Arais that break!)


So pretty much for me, not a hastle to get there, spacious shop with a lot of selection (this way you do'nt have to go to 7 shops to get what you were looking for) and friendly staff without the dickhead/smirk at you attitude.

[bogan]

3) PRICES THE SAME AS ON THE NET. Heck Ive stated the reasons why this is largely difficult to achieve in MANY threads, does no-one read these or do they refuse to believe ( as an industry insider being brutally candid ) what I am saying. Big margins, yeah right!

I'm yet to hear an answer that satisfies me, all I've heard is we can't try that its too risky, or it wont work cos the rest won't change, or the motorcycle industry in NZ is perfect and its the customers that are the problem I don't have insider knowledge, but I can try and put my thoughts in simple terms.

NZ dealers are losing trade through internet sales and are blaming everyone but themselves for this, these internet parts are identical to those you get locally, however locally they a likely to cost 1.5x as much (that includes postage from both, and for one part, if I got a bulk order locally is probably more like 2x). Won't fluctuations in the dollar help dealers buying from overseas the same as it helps customers? and I don't mind paying a bit extra (lets say 12.5% to cover the gst) to support NZ industry, but an extra 50% is too much.

I spose what I'm asking is why can places like wemoto.com get the same part, but so much cheaper even with postage taken into account?

As Ixion says it sounds like labour is being undercharged and parts overcharged to compensate, surely it makes more sense to have both divisions able to stand on their own?

And finally, do you think burying your head in the sand is going to make the problem go away? cos from where I'm sitting it sounds like that'll make customers go away.

[Virago]

...And Our Government is not taxing everything coming into the country, which they damn well should be...

Yup. Therein lies the biggest internet buying factor - GST.

Those buying small items for personal use on the internet are seldom slapped with GST at the border. Those same items bought in your local bike shop attract 12.5% GST (soon to be increased to 15% by your precious National government).

Those demanding the same price in the shops as they can get from huge overseas warehouses, are generally too dumb to understand such inequities.

Market forces? Yeah, right...