Jacque Fresco on TVNZ now (Wed 14 April)

[mashman]

Money is necessary and we all work for it and we all want or need just that much more

Ya see that's the thing. For me, money isn't necessary at all. It's just that my life is tied to it at the moment and if I don't earn it, then I won't get what I need to continue mine and my families lives... kind of shit for those living pay day to pay day...

Obviously we need a societal structure with governance and communication and laws. Human history demonstrates that Man has tried about every form of rule you can imagine with varying degrees of success or failure.

We already have a societal structure with governance and communication and laws. We don't need one because it already exists. You have a people providing your daily essentials employed by the government, you have phones and computers and we all know about the laws we have.

Yes, human history does show that using finances to "control" how people live their lives doesn't work. That's all it shows to me. People with money will show the darker side of humanity to keep it and currently the medium for deployment is media and government...

Could we have a civilisation without money? Is it possible to have a society where everyone works for the common good? Could we develop technology with the betterment of society as the motivating force?

Think about a normal working day. Get up, go to work 9-5 (for arguments sake), earn money, go home. Wether you like it or not, you're already working for the common good, otherwise society would have collapsed by now... right? What's the difference if there's no money involved?

John Lennon asked the question a long time ago in song, (Imagine), but no-one has come up with a practical answer as yet. The fact is that despite the majority wanting these things few can agree on how to achieve them, and too many are selfishly motivated. Altruism and self-sacrifice are not the dominant forces in human beings unfortunately.

Maybe it's a Scouse thing... although I can't sing and I ain't as pwetty. I'm 40 Ed. And i beg to differ. Altruism and Self-Sacrifice are daily occurrences and you doing it every second you "comply"... money dictates the level of Altruism and Self-Sacrifice because we use it as a measuring stick. If a person isn't getting paid enough, they'll do half a job etc...

Noone cares what the minority thinks. Even if the minority is 50 million people. the government don't believe it can be done because they ARE MONEY MEN... they have no concept of a day without making money. And these are the guys who "run" the country in YOUR name... surely all you have to do is ask?

I still fully believe that with only 4 million people on these 2 Islands you have the perfect opportunity to show the world how to do it and that it can be done. Seems like there would be a few million people "out there" that would love to help us all try too. Shop Smarter New Zealand...

[mashman]

He's on at Auckland Uni tonight and I'm plenty pissed that I can't go and ask this guy a question or two. shame he ain't spritely enough to visit the major cities of the country. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa anyone going?

[Pixie]

Thanks for that. Why haven't we got that? Fuedal siverbacks? Let the chicks run the show more...

We just had 9 years of "chicks" running the show

[Pixie]

Is it possible to have a society where everyone works for the common good?

Yes,it is,
First we need to grow 6 legs and live in nests or hives

[oldrider]

A few moments on Close Up and the man "recharged my batteries" and zest for life!

The old stifling "left right" political "pretenders" of our world are only profiting from "control of the masses" while they personally pick the bones for their own personal gain!

A and B arguing and even "fighting", for the benefit of "C"!

Isn't it time A and B kicked C's arse once and for all!

[mashman]

First we need to grow 6 legs and live in nests or hives

did you enjoy the movie?

[mashman]

A few moments on Close Up and the man "recharged my batteries" and zest for life!

The old stifling "left right" political "pretenders" of our world are only profiting from "control of the masses" while they personally pick the bones for their own personal gain!

A and B arguing and even "fighting", for the benefit of "C"!

Isn't it time A and B kicked C's arse once and for all!

A few moments on Close Up and the man "recharged my batteries" and zest for life!

The old stifling "left right" political "pretenders" of our world are only profiting from "control of the masses" while they personally pick the bones for their own personal gain!

A and B arguing and even "fighting", for the benefit of "C"!

Isn't it time A and B kicked C's arse once and for all!

What he said. Why are we not that way already.

Our Governments seem not to be able to come up with general solutions, well ones that don't involve vast sums of money that YOU pay for. Maybe "we" should all show them how to do it. IT IS JUST A SHIFT IN THINKING. No more, no less. If you're not convinced, then why not ask questions of real people who have figured it out?

[mashman]

He's 94 years old and look how far he's got. He's not the first, and won't be the last to put forward ideals that are thoughtful nor seek to influence for the good. You make the point that we all want a better life, a more secure life, a more peaceful life. We want technology to work for us, not against us, and all these things are what most people want. Real question is why haven't we got it? After all it can be done, can it not?

And you're how old Ed. An active mind the key to a long life you say. Then you have plenty of time to exercise it for the betterment of mankind/humanity/everyone have it any way you like... you are a reasonable man aren't you? Is it just a shift in thinking? Can you be the same person you are now, but in a society without a financial system?

[Laava]

He was very together esp when you consider his age! Was interesting what he said about all forms of government ever have been corrupt. I agree with that although there are varying degrees of corrupt but given that, all future forms of government will also be corrupt and it all boils down to one word, as an individual, a whanau, a government, a country or a race......GREED! It's a basic human motivation, we might not even function without it. IMHO.

[mashman]

GREED! It's a basic human motivation, we might not even function without it. IMHO.

Of course we will. There will still be bragging rights and status associated with sports, industry, innovation, cinema etc... and your greed motivation will be to beat the other guy, not to line anyones pockets, but more over, it will be your individual greed, not necessarily malicious eh?

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

A and B arguing and even "fighting", for the benefit of "C"!

Just changing th egooberment does nothing they are all puppets of the same pupeteer... if you want real change get rid of the pupeteer... Why is it 1% control over 60% of the earths resources when its not really theirs in the first place but belongs to every one and every entity on this planet and has to be shared freely.

This will add me to a few block lists, and probably a few red whats its, but who cares... the bible and the beast, "the beast is money itself..." (I see is as clear as daylight) and that is what we have been fighting all along... The head of the beast the pupeteers, the bankers and others corporates which many are now starting combine in with and controled by the various goverments which becomes Facisms, the US is more Facist than most countries now, and look at where all Hitlers scientists went with Project Papaer Clip... ? (no I am not religious was just bought up in a religous family, but I know the stories) If we want real change then fight the beast, and the real pupeteers.. or else it will just stay the same with a new face and then we say welcome to the New World Order.

Every major organised religion is all controlled by the Luminati (yes including them... who you are thinking enemy). The Luminati controls the secret groups, the Freemasons, the Stone Cutters, the Builderburg Group, The Owls, The Skull & Cross bones blah blah blah the Luminati is control by the... Vatican. All you have to do is follow the money all leads back to the Vatican.

Money causes greed, which causes hate, anger etc..."money the root of all evil." Was at work the other day and something went wrong, was going to cost us more money... and the boss said "Thats the nature of the beast." Then add in the prophecy the mark of the beast, that you will not be able to buy sell or trade with out it... is that computer chips well we have been testing them on our dogs and pets...?

At the end of the day you are modern day slave to the system and that keeps the pupeteers in power who control the governments which in turn control you. You think you have freedoms well think again. If you have true freedom you would be able to go anywhere in the world without a passort without big brother watching and manipulating you, You would be able to have your needs met (yes the resource based ecomony based Jacque Fresco ideas.) the earth has the resources to cloth, house, and put food in the stomach of every living creature out there including every man woman and child. But greed is stopping that.

But then again I know nothing so I shuddup as I am just a simple man with a simple life... oh and rides a bike since this is a bike forums

[oldrider]

Just changing th egooberment does nothing they are all puppets of the same pupeteer... if you want real change get rid of the pupeteer... Why is it 1% control over 60% of the earths resources when its not really theirs in the first place but belongs to every one and every entity on this planet and has to be shared freely.

This will add me to a few block lists, and probably a few red whats its, but who cares... the bible and the beast, "the beast is money itself..." (I see is as clear as daylight) and that is what we have been fighting all along... The head of the beast the pupeteers, the bankers and others corporates which many are now starting combine in with and controled by the various goverments which becomes Facisms, the US is more Facist than most countries now, and look at where all Hitlers scientists went with Project Papaer Clip... ? (no I am not religious was just bought up in a religous family, but I know the stories) If we want real change then fight the beast, and the real pupeteers.. or else it will just stay the same with a new face and then we say welcome to the New World Order.

Every major organised religion is all controlled by the Luminati (yes including them... who you are thinking enemy). The Luminati controls the secret groups, the Freemasons, the Stone Cutters, the Builderburg Group, The Owls, The Skull & Cross bones blah blah blah the Luminati is control by the... Vatican. All you have to do is follow the money all leads back to the Vatican.

Money causes greed, which causes hate, anger etc..."money the root of all evil." Was at work the other day and something went wrong, was going to cost us more money... and the boss said "Thats the nature of the beast." Then add in the prophecy the mark of the beast, that you will not be able to buy sell or trade with out it... is that computer chips well we have been testing them on our dogs and pets...?

At the end of the day you are modern day slave to the system and that keeps the pupeteers in power who control the governments which in turn control you. You think you have freedoms well think again. If you have true freedom you would be able to go anywhere in the world without a passort without big brother watching and manipulating you, You would be able to have your needs met (yes the resource based ecomony based Jacque Fresco ideas.) the earth has the resources to cloth, house, and put food in the stomach of every living creature out there including every man woman and child. But greed is stopping that.

But then again I know nothing so I shuddup as I am just a simple man with a simple life... oh and rides a bike since this is a bike forums

Nothing will change as long as "we" continue to believe there is a "them"!

The mind of the man in the mirror is all we have control of and it is all that we need, unless we hand it over to "them", then we are doomed to continue as we are!

In truth there is no "them" unless "we" individually and collectively decree it to be so!

[mashman]

In truth there is no "them" unless "we" individually and collectively decree it to be so!

For me, the collective "them", at the moment, is the government. That's the first (and probably only) thing that connects everyone in NZ and that's where we expect our direction. I have an idea for an experiment, but fear it will never happen because of the closed minds and their utter reliability on money. There may well be other echelon's of government, but if you can only name them and not physically see them. who do you ask?

[Edbear]

And you're how old Ed. An active mind the key to a long life you say. Then you have plenty of time to exercise it for the betterment of mankind/humanity/everyone have it any way you like... you are a reasonable man aren't you? Is it just a shift in thinking? Can you be the same person you are now, but in a society without a financial system?

I'm only 52 mate, and yes there is time should I wish to pursue such things. Trouble is as most of us recognise, we need to work most of our time merely to survive, and at my age I am effectively having to start all over again after years of ill health and minimal income. I'm doing now what I did 30 years ago and have to do again rather than being freer to pursue other interests as I should be.

I'm not sure we need a non-financial system, the Israelites managed one very well with restitution laws and laws that made things fair for all. People have different educational and skill levels and different interests, with some being gifted in certain areas, so human nature is diverse and some will always be able to do much better than others, leading to economic disparity. But if you look at history, particularly Israelite history and look at the fiscal laws they lived under, you can see how an economic society could function in a fair way.

Just changing th egooberment does nothing they are all puppets of the same pupeteer... if you want real change get rid of the pupeteer... Why is it 1% control over 60% of the earths resources when its not really theirs in the first place but belongs to every one and every entity on this planet and has to be shared freely.

This will add me to a few block lists, and probably a few red whats its, but who cares... the bible and the beast, "the beast is money itself..." (I see is as clear as daylight) and that is what we have been fighting all along... The head of the beast the pupeteers, the bankers and others corporates which many are now starting combine in with and controled by the various goverments which becomes Facisms, the US is more Facist than most countries now, and look at where all Hitlers scientists went with Project Papaer Clip... ? (no I am not religious was just bought up in a religous family, but I know the stories) If we want real change then fight the beast, and the real pupeteers.. or else it will just stay the same with a new face and then we say welcome to the New World Order.

Every major organised religion is all controlled by the Luminati (yes including them... who you are thinking enemy). The Luminati controls the secret groups, the Freemasons, the Stone Cutters, the Builderburg Group, The Owls, The Skull & Cross bones blah blah blah the Luminati is control by the... Vatican. All you have to do is follow the money all leads back to the Vatican.

Money causes greed, which causes hate, anger etc..."money the root of all evil." Was at work the other day and something went wrong, was going to cost us more money... and the boss said "Thats the nature of the beast." Then add in the prophecy the mark of the beast, that you will not be able to buy sell or trade with out it... is that computer chips well we have been testing them on our dogs and pets...?

At the end of the day you are modern day slave to the system and that keeps the pupeteers in power who control the governments which in turn control you. You think you have freedoms well think again. If you have true freedom you would be able to go anywhere in the world without a passort without big brother watching and manipulating you, You would be able to have your needs met (yes the resource based ecomony based Jacque Fresco ideas.) the earth has the resources to cloth, house, and put food in the stomach of every living creature out there including every man woman and child. But greed is stopping that.

But then again I know nothing so I shuddup as I am just a simple man with a simple life... oh and rides a bike since this is a bike forums

Hmmm.... The Scripture actually says it is the love of money that causes all manner of injury and evil things and that by "reaching out for this love" people have "stabbed themselves all over with many pains". The scriptures also point out the obvious that, "a lover of silver will not be satisfied with silver neither a lover of money with income".

So yes, greed is a big factor and people are not satisfied with what they have. Humans are designed to progress, to learn, to explore and advance, but it is human nature that selfishness dominates to the point that "Man has dominated Man to his injury". We also live in fractious times with no consensus as each tries to put their own "stamp" on proceedings and vehemently fight for their cause rather than accede.

Iraq is a classic example of what you say. No-one can argue that things were well under Saddam with evil on a grand scale in the country, but by the same token, what has "freeing" the nation from tyranny resulted in?

Every time a nation is "freed" from tyranical rule, it descends into anarchy and civil unrest. Yes their is more to it.

[mashman]

I'm only 52 mate, and yes there is time should I wish to pursue such things. Trouble is as most of us recognise, we need to work most of our time merely to survive, and at my age I am effectively having to start all over again after years of ill health and minimal income. I'm doing now what I did 30 years ago and have to do again rather than being freer to pursue other interests as I should be.

I'm not sure we need a non-financial system, the Israelites managed one very well with restitution laws and laws that made things fair for all. People have different educational and skill levels and different interests, with some being gifted in certain areas, so human nature is diverse and some will always be able to do much better than others, leading to economic disparity. But if you look at history, particularly Israelite history and look at the fiscal laws they lived under, you can see how an economic society could function in a fair way.



Hmmm.... The Scripture actually says it is the love of money that causes all manner of injury and evil things and that by "reaching out for this love" people have "stabbed themselves all over with many pains". The scriptures also point out the obvious that, "a lover of silver will not be satisfied with silver neither a lover of money with income".

So yes, greed is a big factor and people are not satisfied with what they have. Humans are designed to progress, to learn, to explore and advance, but it is human nature that selfishness dominates to the point that "Man has dominated Man to his injury". We also live in fractious times with no consensus as each tries to put their own "stamp" on proceedings and vehemently fight for their cause rather than accede.

Iraq is a classic example of what you say. No-one can argue that things were well under Saddam with evil on a grand scale in the country, but by the same token, what has "freeing" the nation from tyranny resulted in?

Every time a nation is "freed" from tyranical rule, it descends into anarchy and civil unrest. Yes their is more to it.

Sorry to hear that Ed. The reason people lust after money more and more is because someone keeps revaluing it, as well as the enough is never enough greed stuff! That's why money will never work... And where are the Israelites now? and why didn't the world adopt their model of a financial system if it was so perfect?