My first poll for the NZ public

[mashman]

If one group of people are prepared to pay more dollars for a better vegetable, then yes.

RBE. No money = no paying for resources.

Jin and TDL want to prove that ECP is still actually a problem. Hence the reason that they are unable to answer the question... coz the moment they do, then they're solving the ECP. Tis why I'm laughing my arse off at them, coz they've constrained themselves, and the entire globe, by a dogma that's 100 years old and not applicable in this day and age. Ironically learned by rote, they're unable to let it go as they didn't critically think their way to proving that ECP was ever actually a problem.

Stubborn doesn't quite cover it, neither does ignorance... so please take your pick from any of the following as they'll barely describe just how stupid such a position is...

stubborn

having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good reasons to do so.
"you're a silly, stubborn old woman"
synonyms: obstinate, stubborn as a mule, mulish, headstrong, wilful, strong-willed, self-willed, pig-headed, bull-headed, obdurate, awkward, difficult, contrary, perverse, recalcitrant, refractory; firm, adamant, resolute, dogged, persistent, pertinacious, inflexible, iron-willed, uncompromising, uncooperative, unaccommodating, intractable, unbending, unyielding, unmalleable, unadaptable;
rock-ribbed;
informalstiff-necked;
informalbolshie, bloody-minded;
informalbalky;
archaiccontumacious, froward
"you're too stubborn to admit it"

[mashman]

I don't know if any group should receive better resources. It depends on the need of the group. People decide for themselves what they want and vote with their money. It's not for me to judge. That is a fundamental basis for believing in freedom.

And my opinion is irrelevant. The fact is under a free market and price system those who pay the most get more. You want to remove that system. So again, what do you replace it with?

You replace it with exactly what we have, except you make it all free. That's the fundamental basis of freedom... believing in it is for children, not grown ups. Money does not give freedom where it limits choice i.e. budget constraint. If people choose to do fuck all, then they choose to do fuck all. That's freedom. So you go ahead and believe that you're promoting freedom, coz you ain't, and not even close, because you don't understand what freedom is as you want it limited by budget.

[Jin]

Ok you make it all free. I get that. I just trying to understand how. Is there a plan to make sure everyone pitches in to produce all the resources? And on what basis are they allocated? Or do you just hope it will work and let someone else figure it out?

[Brian d marge]

I didnt say economics i said fractional reserve banking. Two very different things. Economics has lots of different theories and is not simple at all. Fractional reserve banking is simple. Except for you it seems who is trying to equate it to marbles.

I think its perfectly reasonable to ask how resources will be allocated under a rbe. You are saying we should get rid of money and prices. So you need to at least explain what replaces it. You think resources can be placed anywhere so how does that happen?

No
Economics is fractional
Both are extremely simple not complicated at all

On an interesting note it was in Judea when the priests started issuing scripts against the silver that we had fractional banking ..which ultimately ended up in 33 ad with the collapse of the Roman economy..leading to Tiberius using his personal fortune as stimulus .. possibly one of the first cases of quantitative easing from memory so don't quote 😃

Any way back to question
Under a diversified local economy the community decides what is required
U do this on a daily basis ..within your family ...then off to the farmers market or missus Jones next door for the supplies
We do this all the time
Imho
2 really good systems are the Ubuntu party from South Africa..and ultimately the laws of Moses ...don't go all religious on me it was what the oldies practiced back at the dawn of time when I was a lad , both allow the purchase of ur Tv from China .. However one uses money the other has the option not to....

Imho ..and where I differ from mashie ...money has its place ..as a medium of measurement

The charging of interest is where i call foul ....

Inflation, deflation m1 m2 are all weasel words used by people exalting the myth that the Babylonian, venician system is the only way ....

And the sheep who know no better are blinded by these supposedly complicated complexities and follow blindly along.......





sent for a divine source

[Jin]

Wrong. Economics is about predicting human behaviour. It has nothing to do with money.

You dismiss it as simple. Yet you fail to understand that humans are driven by self interest. Or maybe you dismiss that because under rbe we all hold hands and work together for the common good. Again. Is there a plan? Or blind hope someone else will figure it out?

[Jin]

Duplicate posted

[Brian d marge]

It would help if you weren't confusing Money Velocity with the Generation of Wealth - Suggest studying Economics 101 (like I did) instead of Youtube.

Money velocity was ur term go back and read ur own post

I later said that ..how does moving one marble from one tin to another .. velocity.. increase the supply

It doesn't

Neither does giving me an asset in lieu of the owed 11 th marble ...

As I still have 10 marbles and now ur house because of the debt incurred... I.e the interest on the loan of the original 10 marbles ...the fictional 11th marble

Nice try ...try again when ever your ready



sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

you print marbles?

that shit's illegal. i'm telling jews.

Rockerfellas ain't Jews .... neither is me missus and both control the money supply...... much to my distain

sent for a divine source

[Woodman]

Ok you make it all free. I get that. I just trying to understand how. Is there a plan to make sure everyone pitches in to produce all the resources? And on what basis are they allocated? Or do you just hope it will work and let someone else figure it out?

It would need to be policed somehow. Also what if you put in way more effort than others? human nature would soon stop you doing that when you see others doing sweet fa and getting rewarded the same.

[mashman]

Ok you make it all free. I get that. I just trying to understand how. Is there a plan to make sure everyone pitches in to produce all the resources? And on what basis are they allocated? Or do you just hope it will work and let someone else figure it out?

Imho ..and where I differ from mashie ...money has its place ..as a medium of measurement

With that in mind, I'm stunned that a capitalist could understand so much about how and why RBE will work. As a concept, I call it our EOD (Every Other Day).

Under a diversified local economy the community decides what is required
U do this on a daily basis ..within your family ...then off to the farmers market or missus Jones next door for the supplies
We do this all the time

The hard part is realising that everything we need already exists and that because money creates scarcity the resources that exist cannot be "consumed". It's not that the resources don't exist in order to do things, because they clearly do, and it's not like there aren't needs that people need met (working or not). Choice is how resources will be allocated. Choice will also determine what resources are produced. That choice will be made on purpose and what is to be produced will be decided using direct democracy i.e. we all get to vote on what should be produced. How that list will be compiled will likely involve a discussion with industry in regards to what it needs for the future etc... The reason for this is that the planet is finite and we want to avoid the resource scarcity of the past and at least try to keep the place a little tidier.

That's A way to do it. There are other mechanisms to achieve the same thing.

[mashman]

Rockerfellas ain't Jews .... neither is me missus and both control the money supply...... much to my distain

sent for a divine source

Lowercase j = blind scared old white muthafuckas imho.

[Brian d marge]

There was no 3rd Party, I provided services directly to Brian and charged him for them. I merely extended the metaphor to show that when Banks create money (something you are so often fond of telling us) it is because something of value has been created, its also why German Inflation is a bad thing - if you just increase the money supply without creating things of value, you just devalue the currency.

By providing a service u just moved money no additional money was created ..I now have 7 and u 3 marbles or whatever medium u would like to use ...barley is a classic

So... if I go to the bank and buy a house for 50. K why is is I pay back almost 3 x the amount

Am I buying 3 houses? Are 2 things of equal value to my original house price magically appearing into the economy

Are the builders who built the house and the material suppliers getting the extra money ....no they were all paid in the original house price

No ... money is debt.. a measure of negative energy . By default.

Good luck ... ocean will be along soon with his entropic misinterpretation

All good ....



sent for a divine source

[Ocean1]

I e ya can't cut it up into equal valued bits ... ie 10 dollars is 10 x 1 dollar

Which is why we make money in different denominations.

So you can buy as much or as little as you like.

Not just wrong but stupid with it.

[Brian d marge]

Which is why we make money in different denominations.

So you can buy as much or as little as you like.

Not just wrong but stupid with it.

Look up the word fungible

Capt no understand

sent for a divine source

[Ocean1]

ocean will be along soon with his entropic misinterpretation

Negative entropy. Quantity thereof.

And it's a better definition than any you've ever dreamed up.