My first poll for the NZ public

[mashman]

That'd be because they're owed it, if you don't like it then don't borrow money.

They they do own it now? Make your mind up.

Nope. Nobody ever has and nobody ever will.

Oh dear You don't see the irony between what you have just said and the the first statement you made? I know you won't, because if you did, you'd understand the other side of the fence.

The fuck they are. And I've generally found that those with a bit of knowledge tend to know a bit more.

Obviously not in your world.

... you're assuming that that extra bit of knowledge is knowledge that is useful.

This guy (Einstein) might have disagreed with you and he was generally classed as a very smart guy "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.".

[Ocean1]

They they do own it now? Make your mind up.

Owed, fool. Hence the reference to not borrowing money you can't repay, y'know?

Nevermind, you obviously don't.

Oh dear You don't see the irony between what you have just said and the the first statement you made? I know you won't, because if you did, you'd understand the other side of the fence.

No. How about you explain it to me. In plain English. With no completely irrelevant references. And no monumentally fucked up presuppositions.

... you're assuming that that extra bit of knowledge is knowledge that is useful.

This guy (Einstein) might have disagreed with you and he was generally classed as a very smart guy "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.".

All knowledge is useful.

And I rather suspect he might have thought you were as big a fuckwit as the rest of us do.

[mashman]

Owed, fool. Hence the reference to not borrowing money you can't repay, y'know?

Nevermind, you obviously don't.

still failing to extrapolate past the point you choose eh. Where do you think your money came from?

Nevermind, you obviously don't know.

No. How about you explain it to me. In plain English. With no completely irrelevant references. And no monumentally fucked up presuppositions.

You failed to grasp my initial point, so you ain't gonna understand the irony. I'll pass and just enjoy the afterglow thanks.

All knowledge is useful.

And I rather suspect he might have thought you were as big a fuckwit as the rest of us do.

When it's applied correctly, yup, I agree.

even if he would have, that still doesn't mean I'm wrong. Although he would have agreed with my assessment of the financial system as well as the solution being offered.

[Oscar]

Loser? I didn't realise we were competing.

We're not.
You're just making a complete twat of yourself, without any competition.
I wasn't a big fan of Godwins Rule, but when you fell foul of it, I realised what Godwin was getting at.
He was trying to save us from stupid people like you who lack the wit to argue at anything more than the basic level. So, inevitably, zealots and fools will invoke Godwin’s rule, as their lack of nuance, vocabulary and knowledge will kick in leading with nothing but childish epithets.

Yes it is. The people who print the money own the money as was witnessed by them removing the savings of those in Cyprus.

Aha, financial management kills just about every sphere of human endeavor. I don't expect you to grasp that concept as it seem to be relatively new around these parts. However it seems that others have noticed it too.

I understand it fine, you understand it within its limits. So I'm not concerned at how valid you deem your understanding to be.

Financial management kills human endeavor.
Now you've managed to be pompous and stupid - keep that up and you'll get elected to some public office.

So, you're saying that left to their own devices, and without financial management or resources, Fleming would have come up with penicillin?
NASA would have got to the moon?
Da Vinci had a rich patron to keep him from starving.
And so on...

[mashman]

We're not.
You're just making a complete twat of yourself, without any competition.
I wasn't a big fan of Godwins Rule, but when you fell foul of it, I realised what Godwin was getting at.
He was trying to save us from stupid people like you who lack the wit to argue at anything more than the basic level. So, inevitably, zealots and fools will invoke Godwin’s rule, as their lack of nuance, vocabulary and knowledge will kick in leading with nothing but childish epithets.

Typical, using other people's opinions to justify your position. Dripping with much irony.

Financial management kills human endeavor.
Now you've managed to be pompous and stupid - keep that up and you'll get elected to some public office.

So, you're saying that left to their own devices, and without financial management or resources, Fleming would have come up with penicillin?
NASA would have got to the moon?
Da Vinci had a rich patron to keep him from starving.
And so on...

Pompous and stupid? I'll accept the latter, but the former is all down to your interpretation old son.

Yes he would have come up with penicillin without financial management, although I fail to see why you've brought resources into it, coz he woulda needed them in the first place.
Yup, we would likely have been colonising by now.
If society had have been free he wouldn't have needed a rich patron in the first place.
And so on...

[Oscar]

Typical, using other people's opinions to justify your position. Dripping with much irony.

Irony? Not at all.
Perhaps (as I suspect) your reading comprehension is not up to much, so I'll repeat - I didn't think much of Godwins opinion, but you've helped me see his wisdom.
I'm not justifying my opinion, I'm stating it: You lack the mental acuity to argue your corner, even in as humble a forum as KB.

Pompous and stupid? I'll accept the latter, but the former is all down to your interpretation old son.

...

I'm glad you accept your state, as the rest of your post didn't make a lick of sense.

[scumdog]

All Mashy is trying to say is - we don't need cash.

But we do need 'commodities of exchange' for bartering, reward etc

So while Fleming might have still got there without money he would have needed a shit-load of 'commodities of exchange.'

And all those bolts of cloth, gold bricks, herds of pigs and boxes of bananas would have taken heaps of room. And not only that, all but the gold would detriorate over time (although you could gain interest be breeding the pigs I guess)

So having 'commodities of exchange' that looked like money would have been damned handy eh - no struggling to haul a weaner pig out of your pocket when you want to pay for the groceries!

[mashman]

All Mashy is trying to say is - we don't need cash.

But we do need 'commodities of exchange' for bartering, reward etc

So while Fleming might have still got there without money he would have needed a shit-load of 'commodities of exchange.'

And all those bolts of cloth, gold bricks, herds of pigs and boxes of bananas would have taken heaps of room. And not only that, all but the gold would detriorate over time (although you could gain interest be breeding the pigs I guess)

So having 'commodities of exchange' that looked like money would have been damned handy eh - no struggling to haul a weaner pig out of your pocket when you want to pay for the groceries!

No barter either as it's open to the same value distortions as cash. If people wish to barter individually that's entirely up to them, but there will be no need for it in regards to getting food, water, electricity, building, education, health etc... stuff that we all use. Fuckin pointless given that money/barter could hold up the production of any good/service.

[Oscar]

All Mashy is trying to say is - we don't need cash.

But we do need 'commodities of exchange' for bartering, reward etc

So while Fleming might have still got there without money he would have needed a shit-load of 'commodities of exchange.'

And all those bolts of cloth, gold bricks, herds of pigs and boxes of bananas would have taken heaps of room. And not only that, all but the gold would detriorate over time (although you could gain interest be breeding the pigs I guess)

So having 'commodities of exchange' that looked like money would have been damned handy eh - no struggling to haul a weaner pig out of your pocket when you want to pay for the groceries!

Wouldn't be a little bit tricky if you were trying to pay Goldstein the Dentist with your weiner pig?
Howsabout we pay him in gold?
And instead of arguing about how much the gold weighed or how fine it was, why don't break of disks of it and put a nice pic on it and then we could g'tee the number of carats....

EDIT - nice try, but it seems that barter is bad...

[scumdog]

Fuckin pointless given that money/barter could hold up the production of any good/service.

Don't worry - having to work for no immediate or intangible 'reward' will hold up production anyway - hence why we are not inundated with Mashman clones wanting to do away with cash.

[mashman]

Don't worry - having to work for no immediate or intangible 'reward' will hold up production anyway - hence why we are not inundated with Mashman clones wanting to do away with cash.

Really? So why isn't every demanding to be paid up front? You wouldn't do your job then? I'm believe that if people aren't offered the alternative, then they can't make the judgement and given that it is absolutely viable, don't you find it odd that it's never discussed?

[scumdog]

So I get paid in cash X-amount evry fortnight.
I know how many gallons of petrol I can buy with it etc - I can plan my budget knowing the X-amount is going to arrive in exactly two weeks timey, no problem.

But figuring out how many pigs, boxes of apples etc is suitable pay for my job and how to pay the guy at the gas staion (does he want a pig or three boxes of apples?) makes a problem

[mashman]

So I get paid in cash X-amount evry fortnight.
I know how many gallons of petrol I can buy with it etc - I can plan my budget knowing the X-amount is going to arrive in exactly two weeks timey, no problem.

But figuring out how many pigs, boxes of apples etc is suitable pay for my job and how to pay the guy at the gas staion (does he want a pig or three boxes of apples?) makes a problem

So you're still bartering then. Fair enough. I'll use the free fuel. Oooo, deja vu.

[Brian d marge]

So I get paid in cash X-amount evry fortnight.
I know how many gallons of petrol I can buy with it etc - I can plan my budget knowing the X-amount is going to arrive in exactly two weeks timey, no problem.

But figuring out how many pigs, boxes of apples etc is suitable pay for my job and how to pay the guy at the gas staion (does he want a pig or three boxes of apples?) makes a problem

Question.

what would you do if I GAVE you your fuel for the week , no charge , no strings ,,,I just give it to you

Stephen

[scumdog]

Question.

what would you do if I GAVE you your fuel for the week , no charge , no strings ,,,I just give it to you

Stephen

Voice my gratitude?