My first poll for the NZ public

[Drew]

Another shit slinging thread I missed. DAMN IT!

I live week to week. People like me make up a substantial demographic. We would not give up a cash system and work for free, in exchange for free stuff. It is a leap of faith in the rest of the population, where the potential loss is too great.

The idea is flawed anyway, because of human greed, the bulk of people would take more than they need or gave.

Ummm, cunts!

[scumdog]

Another shit slinging thread I missed. DAMN IT!

I live week to week. People like me make up a substantial demographic. We would not give up a cash system and work for free, in exchange for free stuff. It is a leap of faith in the rest of the population, where the potential loss is too great.

The idea is flawed anyway, because of human greed, the bulk of people would take more than they need or gave.

Ummm, cunts!

Been trying to tell Mashy that for yonks.

I ain't getting the message through - I doubt you will succeed either...

[Drew]

Been trying to tell Mashy that for yonks.

I ain't getting the message through - I doubt you will succeed either...

Ah well. It's nice to not be the one missing the point for once anyway.

[mashman]

Another shit slinging thread I missed. DAMN IT!

I live week to week. People like me make up a substantial demographic. We would not give up a cash system and work for free, in exchange for free stuff. It is a leap of faith in the rest of the population, where the potential loss is too great.

The idea is flawed anyway, because of human greed, the bulk of people would take more than they need or gave.

Ummm, cunts!

So no real difference to now then huh? Do you reckon those 50% of the poll who said that they would live in such a society are worried about their "loss" given the potential gains?

You're just another scaredy cat chicken shit mutha fucka. Having said that, heh, what percentage of the current population are greedy? It is a leap of faith and one that's not only worth taking, but one that we sorely need to get out of the current mire. But each to their own. Perhaps you underestimate how people would react given that their needs are catered for?

[mashman]

Been trying to tell Mashy that for yonks.

I ain't getting the message through - I doubt you will succeed either...

... tell me some more how everyone is just going to suddenly become so self interested they'll rape the country and shoot themselves in the foot at the same time. Go on. Coz you're telling me that it is impossible because human beings are incapable of cooperating without incentive. Which just so happens to be bullshit. Some people work exceptionally shitty, exceptionally important and exceptionally poorly paid jobs and yet they still do it. I wonder why anyone would choose to work in their respective fields? It must be the money aye

[Drew]

So no real difference to now then huh? Do you reckon those 50% of the poll who said that they would live in such a society are worried about their "loss" given the potential gains?

You're just another scaredy cat chicken shit mutha fucka. Having said that, heh, what percentage of the current population are greedy? It is a leap of faith and one that's not only worth taking, but one that we sorely need to get out of the current mire. But each to their own. Perhaps you underestimate how people would react given that their needs are catered for?

You deny then, that there would be an immediate drop in productivity? From people taking a tank of gas in their bike and going out for a hoon on a nice Tuesday morning, because they can.

They would wake up to the situation eventually...maybe. But until then, things would get much worse than they are right now. At which point, people would start slamming the system worse than what happens now, and whatever good intentions that prompted the change would be forgotten.

Question. Why should the driven and hardworking people out there. Who have amassed some semblance of security in their efforts, have to give everything away? Lots of cases of people working twice as hard as they needed to, so they can later do half as much as everyone else, lose big time.

The idea cannot stand up, to human nature. Desire is what drives humans I think. Give them nothing to want, and we're all fucked.

[Drew]

... tell me some more how everyone is just going to suddenly become so self interested they'll rape the country and shoot themselves in the foot at the same time. Go on. Coz you're telling me that it is impossible because human beings are incapable of cooperating without incentive. Which just so happens to be bullshit. Some people work exceptionally shitty, exceptionally important and exceptionally poorly paid jobs and yet they still do it. I wonder why anyone would choose to work in their respective fields? It must be the money aye

This whole thing (which there is no fuckin way I'm reading by the way), is a piss take aye? You can't seriously not understand that the exploitation of people willing to do a job, because they didn't upskill enough to get out of it, is how society is structured.

Few do the jobs you describe for life. But there are always people who have no choice but to do them at the time. So they circulate through those jobs and others, trying to better their situation.

This is basic shit man, if I can get it, you should be able to also.

[mashman]

You deny then, that there would be an immediate drop in productivity? From people taking a tank of gas in their bike and going out for a hoon on a nice Tuesday morning, because they can.

They would wake up to the situation eventually...maybe. But until then, things would get much worse than they are right now. At which point, people would start slamming the system worse than what happens now, and whatever good intentions that prompted the change would be forgotten.

Question. Why should the driven and hardworking people out there. Who have amassed some semblance of security in their efforts, have to give everything away? Lots of cases of people working twice as hard as they needed to, so they can later do half as much as everyone else, lose big time.

The idea cannot stand up, to human nature. Desire is what drives humans I think. Give them nothing to want, and we're all fucked.

If a job isn't that essential, then I see little reason why people shouldn't make the choice to go for a ride instead of just sitting around doing nothing.

Very true... although it would defeat the purpose of having voted for it in the first place and we'd end up back with a financial system. That being the case, people would understand what is expected of them which should mitigate the "free loading" that you're so worried about. Sure there will be those who'll go nuts, but there are people who currently do that anyway and I don't see anyone complaining about that. I do see them complaining about the corruption that accompanies it though.

There's also lots of people working twice as hard as they need to to put food on the table and clothes on kids backs. Yet you seem to think that that is acceptable? However in answer to your question, I realise I can do just that i.e. work less, now as well as in my old age because there are so many jobs that really are unrequired. Mine certainly is as there are thousands of developers out there writing the same code as I do. What is anyone going to lose big time?

Wubbish. If human nature exists, which it doesn't, then we're all just as capable as the next person in regards to our range of emotions and decision making ability and given that I, and not just me by any means, would happily "give up what I have" (I get to keep what I have, which is no more than anyone else really), then it's more than possible for others to do the same given the option. We'll not turn into zombies, we'll do quite the opposite, history and human innovation is not driven by financial gain, it is driven by fulfilling need.

[mashman]

This whole thing (which there is no fuckin way I'm reading by the way), is a piss take aye? You can't seriously not understand that the exploitation of people willing to do a job, because they didn't upskill enough to get out of it, is how society is structured.

Few do the jobs you describe for life. But there are always people who have no choice but to do them at the time. So they circulate through those jobs and others, trying to better their situation.

This is basic shit man, if I can get it, you should be able to also.

And what job do they go to when they upskill? Every job that there is is filled, so every person that upskills and moves into a job displaces someone else from that job. You don't grasp that? Other than new jobs being created, that is a factoid. Society is not structured to make the best use of human beings, it is structured to make money for people, another factoid, otherwise the dole would be littered with people. How much shit is created just because it can be and made to be disposable instead of reused? It's a money making scam and yes, society is structured to keep some people down. Keep them busy enough and they can't do a fucking thing easily at all. That's a simple waste.

And that is a bullshit way for anyone to have to live. Looking after the elderly isn't important? The average salary is 50k, what do you think the mean salary is going to be? And according to Ocean, 55% (I think was the figure he quoted) of people are a net draw from the govt. So plenty of people are in those jobs.

oh I get it and I think it's fuckin stupid. Hence I offer something else, obviously something you won't consider because you don't have trust in people. Given the current circumstances and how we do things, I'm not surprised, but changing how things are done and the reasons for doing them will have a positive reaction from people, I'm damned sure of it.

[Drew]

So in order for your system to work, people need to have no human nature trending toward self gratification and desire, and also for them to trust in the rest of humanity.

FAIL.

You're alternative can only be met with trepidation. Because we see daily the evidence of self service. How else would there be the rich, standing on the heads of the poor, to keep them down.

You make both sides of the argument yourself, in a lot of your posts.

Jog on.

[Ocean1]

Ah well. It's nice to not be the one missing the point for once anyway.

Mate, compared to mushman you're a fucking amateur.

[avgas]

You deny then, that there would be an immediate drop in productivity? From people taking a tank of gas in their bike and going out for a hoon on a nice Tuesday morning, because they can.

They would wake up to the situation eventually...

I would sleep more. I love sleep.
Remove money - remove my requirement to miss out on sleep.

[mashman]

So in order for your system to work, people need to have no human nature trending toward self gratification and desire, and also for them to trust in the rest of humanity.

FAIL.

You're alternative can only be met with trepidation. Because we see daily the evidence of self service. How else would there be the rich, standing on the heads of the poor, to keep them down.

You make both sides of the argument yourself, in a lot of your posts.

Jog on.

That's a choice, nothing to do with "human nature". You can choose what gratifies you. If it goes against the rules of society, it's called a crime. Yes, trusting human beings can be hard for way too many people, but I do and the vast majority of them aren't let downs either. Perhaps you've had the opposite experience with people? What percentage of people that you have interacted with have let you down/ripped you off?

FLAIL.

What evidence of self-service? It can only happen in a financial economy... in fact it always has happened in a financial economy, coz you can't get "rich" when there isn't money to get rich from (if you are equating lots of money to being rich that is).

I know I do, that's because I understand both sides of the argument, which makes one of us

Wax off.

[Woodman]

So in order for your system to work, people need to have no human nature trending toward self gratification and desire, and also for them to trust in the rest of humanity.

FAIL.

You're alternative can only be met with trepidation. Because we see daily the evidence of self service. How else would there be the rich, standing on the heads of the poor, to keep them down.

You make both sides of the argument yourself, in a lot of your posts.

Jog on.

What I want to know is what happens on planet mashman when an operative does start to show some human nature/instinct/personality. Will there be "equalizers" in scary uniforms to dumb them down or make them disappear.

[mashman]

What I want to know is what happens on planet mashman when an operative does start to show some human nature/instinct/personality. Will there be "equalizers" in scary uniforms to dumb them down or make them disappear.

... they'll simply be killed... and given the advanced "state" of surveillance tech will have courtesy of the financial system and its overlords, we'll know it before you do and won't waste energy on rehabilitation, we'll just remove you from the gene pool along with your entire family. It will be as if you never existed. Or we'll all be free individuals and those with money "withdrawals" will be looked after by a buddy. I'll be your buddy, coz you're funny.

Still waiting for this human nature thing to be explained coherently.