View Poll Results: Would you live in NZ if there was no financial system?

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  • Yes

    29 24.58%
  • No

    24 20.34%
  • Unsure

    6 5.08%
  • Don't Care

    7 5.93%
  • Yes, but it will never happen

    28 23.73%
  • No, because it will never happen

    24 20.34%
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Thread: My first poll for the NZ public

  1. #2131
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  2. #2132
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    An economist who has incorporated the externalities of production into her model and a pretty good analysis to go with it. Production gotta go bye bye, but that requires new economics that they aren't quite talking about yet, because shooting for sustainability is about as far from growth and capitalism friendly as things get when ya stick to the evidence and ignore human opinion with regards to what needs to be done. Enjoy.

    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  3. #2133
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    These things did not and are not happening by accident. All action that has led us to this point, these points, has outcomes that were known before they were implemented. The results of decisions made are very much evident.

    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  4. #2134
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    Providing decent living with minimum energy: A global scenario...

    I saw this (great analysis btw) and thought of you for some reason.

    "Decent living is of course a subjective concept in public discourse. However, the current work offers a response to the clichéd populist objection that environmentalists are proposing that we return to living in caves. With tongue firmly in cheek, the response roughly goes ‘Yes, perhaps, but these caves have highly-efficient facilities for cooking, storing food and washing clothes; low-energy lighting throughout; 50 L of clean water supplied per day per person, with 15 L heated to a comfortable bathing temperature; they maintain an air temperature of around 20 °C throughout the year, irrespective of geography; have a computer with access to global ICT networks; are linked to extensive transport networks providing ~5000–15,000 km of mobility per person each year via various modes; and are also served by substantially larger caves where universal healthcare is available and others that provide education for everyone between 5 and 19 years old.’ And at the same time, it is possible that the amount of people’s lives that must be spent working would be substantially reduced."
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  5. #2135
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    So would we have access to current technology or is this a cut the rope moment and your on your own with what you’ve got?
    If there’s no trade what happens when my crops fail how do I get more food for my family. Given that with no means to trade or store extra earnings there will be no incentive to produce more than ones own needs.
    Who will repeat the Green propoganda when you can’t pay someone to do that lol
    Will some guy walk on water and carry a book telling us all how to live the new way, perhaps a set of Ten Commandments or something....
    Whose going to do the crap jobs when there’s no incentive or reward?

    Anyhow your experiment t will be realised in a generation or two. The elite want us living in smart cities in a technocratic dictatorship. And we will all love it to save the rest of the planet that we can’t travel to...
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  6. #2136
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    So would we have access to current technology or is this a cut the rope moment and your on your own with what you’ve got?
    We may get access to better technology than we publicly currently know we have. At the moment we can't have that sort of stuff coz tech unemployment and the effects on the economy. When a collective effort is required, which it very much is, it's a, here's an extra rope in case the current one breaks, moment. As the document mentions, it'll take an across the board effort from producer to consumer.

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    If there’s no trade what happens when my crops fail how do I get more food for my family. Given that with no means to trade or store extra earnings there will be no incentive to produce more than ones own needs.
    NZ produces enough to feed 10 million people, yet trade keeps people hungry, and earnings keep people keeping it that way, because that's how things are incentivised. The energy outlined is unaffordable. You could trying reading the link ya know ... The incentive is to see a future unfold that is actually sustainable from an energy perspective at bare minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Who will repeat the Green propoganda when you can’t pay someone to do that lol
    That's kind of the point... coz what propaganda is required when you're doing things for purpose and not simply to facilitate trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Will some guy walk on water and carry a book telling us all how to live the new way, perhaps a set of Ten Commandments or something....
    I was thinking more along the lines of corporate persons coming to terms with choosing to do things because they make sense rather than endlessly waiting for some authority to tell them which is the right way to be going about things... coz that don't always turn out too good does it .

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Whose going to do the crap jobs when there’s no incentive or reward?
    Well, if we cut energy appropriately there'll be a large enough workforce available that such jobs could become some form of 'national service'. Such a service could be 1 year of your life in 1 crap job. Incentive enough? Or do you really need a reward to sooth your ego too?

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Anyhow your experiment t will be realised in a generation or two. The elite want us living in smart cities in a technocratic dictatorship. And we will all love it to save the rest of the planet that we can’t travel to...
    Correct, because ya'll are doing fuck all else to prevent such from taking place outwith pointing and screaming "Commy", "Greeny", "Pinko", "Hippy", as if someone else is gonna actually do something about it for ya simply because you're pointing. Divine Comedy alright, but a tragedy without question thus far given the critical thinking on display.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  7. #2137
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    Reply Mashman

    Quote 1 tech was in regard to the choice of either today’s world or some new black magic energy source yet undiscovered

    Quote 2 we only produce extra food at moment due to capitalist motivations. Even right now the primary sector is struggling to find people that WANT to work, let alone have the required skills and attitude.

    Quote 3 natural human nature someone will want to be in charge. Some humans are naturally lazy and will want for morevthan they can produce. They may have items of high value naturally available on their plot which they will seek to illegally trade for advantage.... someone will need to broadcast the rules continuously just like a cult you need to remind people why they are there lol

    Quote last... we all doing f all for change as we are involuntary bound to the current system. To try live outside of it soon brings you to the realm of drifter/outcast or at worst enemy of the state. Even to build your own housing/food supply/energy source outside the system breaches laws which will inevitably see you imprisoned.

    If you want to see how your utopia works go to any of our poverty stricken small towns in remote areas. You’ll see that all that happens when there is no incentive or reward to work. Some of those people are probably happy with that as they don’t know any other lifestyle. But I sure as hell know where I’d like to live....
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  8. #2138
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Quote 1 tech was in regard to the choice of either today’s world or some new black magic energy source yet undiscovered
    Same answer stands. Tomorrows tech requires very different economics to todays.

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Quote 2 we only produce extra food at moment due to capitalist motivations. Even right now the primary sector is struggling to find people that WANT to work, let alone have the required skills and attitude.
    Same answer stands. Now you sound like an old man defending old ways, you know, like tdl and berkboy. The link is explaining the sorts of change that is required and your responses are still ignoring that. It's called change for a reason, not tinker around the edges.

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Quote 3 natural human nature someone will want to be in charge. Some humans are naturally lazy and will want for morevthan they can produce. They may have items of high value naturally available on their plot which they will seek to illegally trade for advantage.... someone will need to broadcast the rules continuously just like a cult you need to remind people why they are there lol
    Human nature ... Monkey see monkey choose to do according to the Dunedin Experiment and pretty much any objective anaysis of why people do things. Ironic though, if you blame God it isn't human nature. Items of value? did you read the link? There will be less jobs to do so yeah there will be some people doing nothing. Accepting this to be the case comes under the guise of growing the fuck up, because it needs to happen whether you like it or not... and indeed Klaus and Co have their variant on the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Quote last... we all doing f all for change as we are involuntary bound to the current system. To try live outside of it soon brings you to the realm of drifter/outcast or at worst enemy of the state. Even to build your own housing/food supply/energy source outside the system breaches laws which will inevitably see you imprisoned.
    You should go into comedy. The system isn't the problem. Corporate persons are and their want to see the only solution be a financial solution that allows them to buy more shit desite the fact that that is the very behaviour that is currently fecking things up. Seriously, the link is right there

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    If you want to see how your utopia works go to any of our poverty stricken small towns in remote areas. You’ll see that all that happens when there is no incentive or reward to work. Some of those people are probably happy with that as they don’t know any other lifestyle. But I sure as hell know where I’d like to live....
    My utopia? Stupidest assumption you've made yet. Haven't you got some RuskiCoin to count or some Commycs to read.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  9. #2139
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    Your very big on philosophy but short on substance with regards to changes....

    What’s the obsession with corporate CEOs... yes they get paid too much but that’s a very small part of the problem. Their wages equal that of 10-30 normal workers... all that gives them is slighter flasher car or house etc otherwise not much is different.
    In fact all that lavish spending creates entire new jobs and industries which we benefit from even in NZ....

    There are many third world countries you could move to and live a life without money or trade... be a very interesting experiment....
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  10. #2140
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    Your very big on philosophy but short on substance with regards to changes....
    lol. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. You see the world as you are. All kind of important philosophical points when removing ones ego/bias/dissonance/etc... from the translation of that which someone else has said/written... or not as it far too often the case (and backed by an echo chamber that's just as dumb, well, monkey see monkey do).

    I can explain to you how to end involuntary homelessness without changing much of anything should you wish. You understanding it however... let's just say that I Am skepitcal. I know you can, but whether you will choose to or not is anoter matter. Asking questions about something you don't really know anything about, well, that's a critical thinking novelty v's the more oft used subjective hell of assumptions. Deep eh

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    What’s the obsession with corporate CEOs... yes they get paid too much but that’s a very small part of the problem. Their wages equal that of 10-30 normal workers... all that gives them is slighter flasher car or house etc otherwise not much is different.
    In fact all that lavish spending creates entire new jobs and industries which we benefit from even in NZ....
    If you mean by my referencing Corporate Persons = corporate CEO's, then nah, I use that term instead of the term sheeple. Slightly set apart from the Sovereign Being.

    If you meant it as a general, wtf is wrong with people bagging the owners of production given that that's how things work, then there are many reasons, ranging from hippy to envy, justified or not. Cool CEO story bro, 'My' utopia would send every CEO home, and the employees if possible, on full pay where their business is classed as Non-Essential. They get paid to do nothing. The economics to make this happen exist today. The understanding in a world that demands that you must sing for your supper even if it is destroying the planet..................

    Quote Originally Posted by R650R
    There are many third world countries you could move to and live a life without money or trade... be a very interesting experiment....
    Without being nihilistic, but what does burying ones head in the sand accomplish? Did you read the link ........
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  11. #2141
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman
    'My' utopia would send every CEO home, and the employees if possible, on full pay where their business is classed as Non-Essential. They get paid to do nothing. The economics to make this happen exist today. The understanding in a world that demands that you must sing for your supper even if it is destroying the planet..................
    In fact, those economics showed up again a few hours after the post quoted was posted because of a virus. Shame we don't do similar on purpose, coz we could literally be using various sections of road for more frequent road racing
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  12. #2142
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    Finally got to speak to someone, something, an intelligence, that knows what it's talking about. Fun tool with a feck tonne of knowledge and the ability to apply it mentally. For Dave: A brain that still hasn't matched my own dontcha know.

    Anyhoo, I bring you logic, reason and common sense in the form of a financial approach that's now better than cost neutral in order to end involuntary homelessness in NZ. 'start from here' All it takes is parking your ego at the door and patiently realising just what there is to gain simply by saying, "hey, that's worth a crack.".

    Pro Tip: It is highly unlikely that you will like what AI has to say and will therefore blame the information provided to AI. If (you find that happening) GOTO 'start from here'.

    C'mon, I know there's a human being in there struggling to get out. Here's your chance to do something that the establishment hasn't been able to
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

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