Declaration could test voters' tolerance

**mashman** · 21st April 2010, 09:33

Looks like the Nats have been busy pissing people off again. Personally I can't see what the problem is, but my lack of NZ history and NZ/Maori "relations" is next to non-existent...

Apparantly the declaration started life in 1985... 20+ years to draft a document to tell people what they already know???

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-sto...ers-tolerance/

What say the voters?

**Tank** · 21st April 2010, 09:46

Originally Posted by mashman

What say the voters?

Prob the same thing they have said after everything the "left" have said will drive voters their way.

They will continue to support National and the Nats will remain 20 points ahead of labour (and able to form a government alone) with Key by far the preferred PM with Goff sitting on 6 - 8% polling less than Helen Clarke.

Same as it has been since 'ages ago'

**Jantar** · 21st April 2010, 09:50

I am appalled at John Keys actions. I still support National, but not JK.

**Mully** · 21st April 2010, 10:10

Originally Posted by mashman

What say the voters?

Who gives a shit?

A UN document isn't worth the paper it's written on.

The thing is, National basicially have free reign to do what they like. With Phil Goff and Annette King polling behind "Margin of Error" in the preferred PM stakes, Labour have nothing to offer. And Rodney Hide has no hope of getting into parliament without National, so he'll do as he's told. He'll bitch and moan, but he'll do National wants.

A snap election would be wonderful for the Nats - they could govern alone.

IMHO, Labour should have chucked out Goff and King when they had the chance. It's a bit late for anyone else now (poison chalice anyone?) I reckon senior Labour members have already written off 2011. Goff and King (has anyone even heard from Annette King lately? At least Goff gets soundbites) will get thumped and removed and they'll gear up for 2014 with new leadership.

**Tank** · 21st April 2010, 10:18

Originally Posted by Mully

At least Goff gets soundbites.

Well - not many. But his last ones were awesome - Telling the country how good John Key was:

"Labour leader Phil Goff has heaped rare praise on the Prime Minister.
Mr Goff was responding to questions about his party's performance in the polls – but it all ended very strangely.
“I've got to given it to John Key – he's a very good politician; very slick, very professional at what he does, very good at photo opportunities and that helps him,” he said.
However, Mr Goff wasn't doing himself any favours – 3 News asked what he meant – he kept digging.
“I'm happy to give credit where credit’s due,” Mr Goff said. “He's a good politician at getting a media opportunity and at political spin – they poll every week and then say in their statements what they think the public want to hear.”
Hearing their leader talking up the Prime Minister is probably not what his Labour MPs wanted to hear.
Mr Goff though was on a roll – all of which left the prime minister bemused.
“Well there's obviously been a change of heart in the Labour Party,” Mr Key said.
Mr Goff ended the day spectacularly off message – even his own team were left wondering what happened, but politics is war and today Mr Goff blinked first."

**mashman** · 21st April 2010, 10:35

So they've thrown in the towel and the Nats are here to sell off NZ for another term... hardly surprising that Key's got a smug grin on his face half the time...

Would Maori be able to challenege the "government" for sovereignty using this document?

**Tank** · 21st April 2010, 10:41

Originally Posted by mashman

So they've thrown in the towel and the Nats are here to sell off NZ for another term...

Probably - thats why Goff is still leader - its a poisoned chaise to be handed - and none of the others want it - Pretty clear they have written off 2011. Right after that tho' I expect Goff to be gone-burger. Not that they have any talent to replace him with.

Originally Posted by mashman

Would Maori be able to challenege the "government" for sovereignty using this document?

It is very clear that he declaration has not status in law, and it has no legal effect.

**Mully** · 21st April 2010, 10:44

Originally Posted by mashman

Would Maori be able to challenege the "government" for sovereignty using this document?

Don't some of the challenge sovereignty anyway?

I liked the bloke in the news the other day who decided he didn't need to pay tax cos he is Maori. Awesome.

**mashman** · 21st April 2010, 10:51

Originally Posted by Tank

It is very clear that he declaration has not status in law, and it has no legal effect.

Then what was the point of the creating the document if it serves no function?

Originally Posted by Mully

Don't some of the challenge sovereignty anyway?

I liked the bloke in the news the other day who decided he didn't need to pay tax cos he is Maori. Awesome.

lol, more than likely... but that's the reason I asked the question...

Didn't need to pay tax what what what? Got a linky... I could do with a larf.

**MisterD** · 21st April 2010, 10:54

Originally Posted by mashman

Would Maori be able to challenege the "government" for sovereignty using this document?

No, but that won't stop it being added to the bogus "spirit of the treaty" stuff when it comes time to re-negotiate those "full and final" settlements eh?

**Mully** · 21st April 2010, 10:59

Originally Posted by mashman

Then what was the point of the creating the document if it serves no function?

Umm, it's the UN......

Didn't need to pay tax what what what? Got a linky... I could do with a larf.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...llion-tax-bill

**rainman** · 21st April 2010, 11:01

Originally Posted by Tank

Telling the country how good John Key was:

“I've got to given it to John Key – he's a very good politician; very slick, very professional at what he does, very good at photo opportunities and that helps him,” he said.
However, Mr Goff wasn't doing himself any favours – 3 News asked what he meant – he kept digging.
“I'm happy to give credit where credit’s due,” Mr Goff said. “He's a good politician at getting a media opportunity and at political spin – they poll every week and then say in their statements what they think the public want to hear.”
Hearing their leader talking up the Prime Minister is probably not what his Labour MPs wanted to hear.
Mr Goff though was on a roll – all of which left the prime minister bemused.
“Well there's obviously been a change of heart in the Labour Party,” Mr Key said.
Mr Goff ended the day spectacularly off message – even his own team were left wondering what happened, but politics is war and today Mr Goff blinked first."

Clearly, the NZ media are as smart as you and Mr Key.

And on the UNDRIP? Probably a good idea, botched implementation as usual though.

**Swoop** · 21st April 2010, 11:01

It opens up a bigger can of worms in the way that appeals to The Hague can occur.

Signing anything from the UN is always a bad idea. I thought labour were the first to suck up to the blue-helmet mob...