Points for qualifying?

**CHOPPA** · 26th April 2010, 10:52

In the NZ superbike we only get 10 points scoring races in the 5 rounds.

I think it would be good if we got points for qualifying as well??

**Tony.OK** · 26th April 2010, 11:07

Why is it that most other classes seem to get 3 races per meeting and the SBK's and 600's only get 2 ?

Is it because of having longer races? Or needing the extra practise sessions? Or is it because the main crowds are there for the 2nd day?

**steveyb** · 26th April 2010, 11:47

Chop, there are a milllion different ways to score points for motorbike races.
The one we currently use is but one of them, and, perhaps far from the best.

How about this one for an example:
100 points for each of Pole Position and race win. Points then decreasing to 50 for 15th place. (Haven't counted it down to figure the exact scale).
So even 15th place gets 50 points, not 1, thereby incentivising riders to compete right up the the end of the race, as it would be easier to make up 50 point deficit than the current 24 point deficit. And the fluffy PC bit, it makes riders feel better to have 50 points than 1 point, no matter what the relative benefits might be.
1 point for each lap lead in races. 20 points per race (or however many laps) up for grabs.
Riders allowed to discard worst 1 qual and 1 race. Means championship result might well be unknown right up to last race.
The result to be discarded must be notified to officials within 10 minutes of the completion of the final race. If no notification is received, the worst results will be discarded automatically. It sounds like that would be what you would always do, but it is not always the worst result that is discarded for whatever reasons, such as promoting a team-mate or keeping out a competitor or something like that.

As said, there are a million other ways.

Tim Gibbes tried the 25, 23, 22, 20, 19 method for a while and also tried to get MNZ to adopt it, but no one wanted to change.
In fact, if you look around, only MNZ, BSB and MotoGP use the system we use I think.

**Shaun** · 26th April 2010, 11:56

Staying on bike untill race is finished is enough for enough points is it not

Points are for races, Not practise

I do like the way the BSB has changed grid positions if 2 races done on the day, ie, start where you qualified for the first race, then start where you finished after the first race for the second race, that is reward for your hard work

**lukemillar** · 26th April 2010, 16:33

Originally Posted by Shaun

Staying on bike untill race is finished is enough for enough points is it not

Points are for races, Not practise

I do like the way the BSB has changed grid positions if 2 races done on the day, ie, start where you qualified for the first race, then start where you finished after the first race for the second race, that is reward for your hard work

I totally agree though grid position for Race 2 is based on fastest lap from Race 1 rather than finishing position. There have been 2 BSB rounds so far with this rule and I think it's great! last time at Thruxton, the grid for race 2 put the original pole man and winner back to 6th on the grid, and a guy who went balls out in 6th/7th trying to catch the leading group got tht fastest lap and ended up on pole!

**Shaun** · 26th April 2010, 16:47

Originally Posted by lukemillar

I totally agree though grid position for Race 2 is based on fastest lap from Race 1 rather than finishing position. There have been 2 BSB rounds so far with this rule and I think it's great! last time at Thruxton, the grid for race 2 put the original pole man and winner back to 6th on the grid, and a guy who went balls out in 6th/7th trying to catch the leading group got tht fastest lap and ended up on pole!

My bad, and you are correct.

**discodan** · 27th April 2010, 09:10

I personally think the 25, 20, 16, .. points system is spot on. It means if you miss a race or crash then you still have a hope of clawing your back. Otherwise, in the winter series for example, if you miss a round then you can pretty much kiss good bye to placing high up at the end of the season.

**codgyoleracer** · 27th April 2010, 11:16

For the superbike guys and 600 guys that only have a ten race series the point spread is 25 -20-16 could be too great IMO. Personally the crowd goes home on Saturday confused and un-entertained with no racing from the premier classes. The dedicated qualifying is boring to watch to be blunt and our sounds systems at tracks are not up to scratch to keep it interesting.
May as well waste a set of tyres having a race on the Saturday - instead of tearing a set up in qualifying, so costs wont change much.

If format goes back to three races then points as they are aint so bad. But Tims format still has merit & keeps the presuure on the front runners to be conssitent and perform to a high level at all tracks.

Glen

**steveyb** · 27th April 2010, 11:27

As far as I can tell, the current 2 race programme for SBK and SP600 was introduced in an effort to make our series look more and more like higher level series such as WSBK, MotoGP, BSB where they race only on the Sunday.
No one seems to want MotoGP or WSBK to have a race on Saturday do they?

I agree that qualifying can be a bit boring for spectators, but perhaps that is partly because of the way we do it. Agreed that the sound systems and commentators might not be able to make the most of it, but as far as I can tell, most of the competitors go out and ride around and around for the whole session with maybe one stop for a rest or something. Have a look at how the WSBK and MotoGP riders do it. They do it in clear sessions of a few laps at a time. This can give the commentators something to talk about.

I actually prefer the system that we have now for qualifying and races for NZSBK and 600, I think it is more contemporary, more professional and makes for a better show as all spectators know that Sunday is race day, whatever happens on Saturday.

As Codgy says, one of the reasons for the 25, 23, 22 system is to not penalise riders for not winning races, so that they can keep on trying and maybe still get a good championship position.
But the 25, 20, 16 system rewards winning by creating larger gaps between riders who win and those who don't. But can make non-winning riders give up, either consciously or sub-consciously.

Check out the V8 Supercars points system. Most people seem to think that their system is part of an exciting sport.

Check out IndyCar points system. Pretty confusing though I think.

Vic Club winter series uses 25, 20, 16 .... system

**slowpoke** · 29th April 2010, 05:53

I know when I was in Western Australia the Motorcycle Racing Club of WA did a bit of casual research amongst the spectators at race meetings regarding the best race format and the result was a strong push for shorter races. The average punter would rather see 3 x 8 lap races than 2 x 15 lap races.

I don't mind racing them but I don't think our small Nationals fields lend themselves to long races. We aren't MotoGP, or WSB, we don't have enough interest throughout the small fields to keep Joe Public interested once the field has spread.

It would be interesting to survey some NZ spectators, 'cos they are who we need to be attracting and entertaining. Give them what they want and we're on the right track to improving he profile of our sport.

**roogazza** · 29th April 2010, 11:31

Originally Posted by slowpoke

I know when I was in Western Australia the Motorcycle Racing Club of WA did a bit of casual research amongst the spectators at race meetings regarding the best race format and the result was a strong push for shorter races. The average punter would rather see 3 x 8 lap races than 2 x 15 lap races.

I don't mind racing them but I don't think our small Nationals fields lend themselves to long races. We aren't MotoGP, or WSB, we don't have enough interest throughout the small fields to keep Joe Public interested once the field has spread.

It would be interesting to survey some NZ spectators, 'cos they are who we need to be attracting and entertaining. Give them what they want and we're on the right track to improving he profile of our sport.

Yep Slowpoke,agree, short races in NZ for me.
Don't know about points for Qualifying, would it really make a difference ?

**FROSTY:Me** · 29th April 2010, 18:03

given that there is stuff all actual spectator support and our bikes don't really line up with the rest of the world--why not actually ask the guys riding the bikes--ie paying their entry fees what they want?

**CHOPPA** · 29th April 2010, 18:29

Originally Posted by roogazza

Yep Slowpoke,agree, short races in NZ for me.
Don't know about points for Qualifying, would it really make a difference ?

Yeah for sure, if you have a DNF in a race with only 10 races its hard to catch up on points. If you had 3 more points scoring events it would help. There is F/A reward for qualifying and it costs the same as a race, if there were 30 bikes on the grid then it would be diff cause if you qualified last you would be on the 2nd row

**gixerracer** · 29th April 2010, 21:21

Dont fall off then

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

Yeah for sure, if you have a DNF in a race with only 10 races its hard to catch up on points. If you had 3 more points scoring events it would help. There is F/A reward for qualifying and it costs the same as a race, if there were 30 bikes on the grid then it would be diff cause if you qualified last you would be on the 2nd row