Personal responsibility goes out the window...

[mashman]

Maybe by putting it up on the top shelf and keeping it out of their reach,

... I remember I couldn't figure out how to use a ladder at 15

[rainman]

sounds like she is jumping on the nanny state bandwagon. At some point people need to take personal responsibility, its up to the parents to decide when their children reach that stage, and to make sure they actually do reach that stage!

Good satire!

I KNOW she is wrong. I was the only one whole could just get away with buying alcohol in my group. We drank a lot, we are all still alive. Whenever we could'nt get booze, we found a way. Usually by doing the same thing, and stealing a bottle from someones parents, or bribing someone to buy it for us.

More rules makes it harder. It wo'nt even slightly discourage a damn thing.

You misunderstand my point. You can't legislate to stop (particularly kids) stupidity, but more regs does make it harder.

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but certain European countries (I believe France may be one of them) where children are introduced to alcohol at a younger age in a controled environment have a much lower incidence of 'binge drinking' and other social harms that abuse brings. Maybe by putting it up on the top shelf and keeping it out of their reach, while all the wise adults enjoy themselves by indulging, has the exact opposite effect than what we hoped for.

I'd agree with that. My mum was very anti-booze, for religious reasons, so first chance I got I binged and misbehaved. Our kids have been exposed to modest amounts of alcohol as part of normal life and are much more balanced than me. Part of that might be me getting them to taste my homebrew, though - put them off for life. Of course the chief problem with this approach is it takes a generation to work through the system.

You know, I think the smartest way of dealing with the issue of stupid people killing themselves because they are well.....stupid, is to either let them do it, or educate them that sculling a bottle of vodka will kill you.

You ca'nt tell kids that "drinking is bad. m,kay." Actually showing evidence of adults who have killed themselves from drinking in excess is about all that can be done. The rest is up to the individual.

Problem is fewer adults drink themselves (literally) to death as they are physically bigger than the kids. Heaps of adults kill themselves (and others) as a result of being drunk, and the educational campaigns are incessant - but all that information still doesn't work. You have to hit them in the pocket, or make escapism uncool. Good luck with that.

[Maha]

Kids these days seem to be told what they can and can't do from day 1. They have little opportunity to learn limits/boundaries, and how to test them safely , and results from stepping over them. Then when they become young adults, and have a lot more freedom, without the skills to meter it , they reach and cross limits with much worse results.

Each subsequent generation seems to have relied less on common sense, and more on regulation than the one prior. I beleive this "relates" to the direction society is taking (vicious cycle etc).

"All of the above is my opinion only - but it's right (of course)"

These days?
I was born in 1962 and it was happening then. I new exactly what was right and what was wrong.
And heres the irony, I still do!
Yes I bent a few rules a little as a teenager (sometimes to breaking point) who didn't?
I dont beleive my parents ever blamed the then Government about any wrong doing I did.
The only notiable difference is, I never died as a result of my 'rule bending' whatever that may have been. I also knew my limits and boundries.

Thanks Mum and Dad.

[phill-k]

to quote the funnyman on TV - what is he a psychiatrist

You are not your kids friend you are their protector, provider and carer, its sometimes called tough love. If you choose to have them take care of them, don't blame your failings on others, thats whats gone wrong in this country everyone keeps looking to pass the blame.

[neels]

The problem is that in order to properly "educate" your child you need to get them shitfaced. That means that the parent has to break the law... LMAO @ personal responsibility in 15 - 16 yr olds...

It's not breaking the law for parents to supply their children with alcohol.

We are happy enough for our under 18 kids to have a drink when the occasion is appropriate, sometimes they do and unbelievable as it may seem sometimes they aren't interested, perhaps because it is available they don't feel the need to drink every time they have the opportunity.

And we have set the example of how to drink responsibly, and they have on occasion also observed how not to, hopefully they are learning something along the way

[firefighter]

You misunderstand my point. You can't legislate to stop (particularly kids) stupidity, but more regs does make it harder.

It only makes it harder for those legally able to purchase the stuff. What actual regs could or would you suggest? As far as I can tell it would only serve as a hassle for those of us who survived to legal age.......Hell I get pissed off enough at the parents dropping their fucken kids off instead of making them walk/ride a bike/catch the bus like I had to, and clogging up the damn roads on the way to work. Hobby road is shit in the morning, until you pass the god-damn school then it opens up straight away. (in school holidays I get to work 30-40 mins earlier if i'm in the cage/bike does'nt matter so much) I'm already inconvenienced because of other peoples kids, if I have to start locking up my booze i'll start yelling and throwing bricks at every parent I see!

Problem is fewer adults drink themselves (literally) to death as they are physically bigger than the kids.

Well obviously. That's why when you talk to kids, you just give the stuff they'll take in. Like "scull this whole bottle in one go, and you'll die like this guy did".

Message delivered. It's now up to the kids to decide whether they wanna live or die. Anymore spoon feeding that that A) is'nt listened to, and B) takes away common sense.

[Edbear]

This particular case is sad, as from the TV interviews it appears the parents and the hosts did everything right. But boys will be boys and while this is always going to be true, there are going to be consequences. I was classed as a "goody goody" as a teenager, yet there but for the... it could have been me. I succumbed to older peer pressure and drove drunk a couple of times and was so sick I swore never again! Sixteen is not an age of strength for personal responsibility in the main. My parents rarely drank, the occaisional beer or wine but my peers were drunkards and rebels.

I can accept the boy did not intend to get paralytic or die and his friends would have had no idea of the concept of alcohol poisioning either. Kids don't think, and don't have the knowledge or experience to make good judgement calls, at that age they need their parents and responsible adults, or at least responsible older friends around.

We don't know how much education his parents gave him growing up, sometimes, it is simply as a friend of his said on the news, that he wanted to do something "bad" for a change and getting drunk was as "bad" as he thought.

It is a tragedy that may not have been easily preventable and I feel for his family and friends. As father to three grown up children I know what it takes to parent and I am ever grateful that my kids are mature and responsible and such that I can be proud of.

My 2c.

[mashman]

It's not breaking the law for parents to supply their children with alcohol.

We are happy enough for our under 18 kids to have a drink when the occasion is appropriate, sometimes they do and unbelievable as it may seem sometimes they aren't interested, perhaps because it is available they don't feel the need to drink every time they have the opportunity.

And we have set the example of how to drink responsibly, and they have on occasion also observed how not to, hopefully they are learning something along the way

Agreed. What I meant was, getting the "children" absolutely legless... if they don't learn what their limits are, they won't know when they're near them and hence may well OD and kill themselves... same as any other drug... who better to take them to that limit than their parents... I would have thought that would have been illegal?

[neels]

Agreed. What I meant was, getting the "children" absolutely legless... if they don't learn what their limits are, they won't know when they're near them and hence may well OD and kill themselves... same as any other drug... who better to take them to that limit than their parents... I would have thought that would have been illegal?

If you let them drink themselves to death, then probably yes. But allowing them to drink to the point that they will learn that it hurts the next day and they can't remember all the stupid shit they did, and keeping an eye on them to make sure they're OK, hopefully not.

[Tank]

They talk about binge drinking in NZ - what surprised me was "what is binge drinking"

The answer - "The New Zealand health service classifies Binge Drinking as anytime a person consumes 5 or more standard drinks in a sitting."

Yep - sit down in a evening and drink 5 beers - if even over 5 - 6 hours - you are a binge drinker in the eyes of the NZ G'ment.

Fuck - I call that a good lunch.

Do you really want people like that to legislate against alcohol?

[Bald Eagle]

An inevitable outcome of the swinging rights versus responsibilities pendulum.

[phill-k]

Agree tank thats fours'es at our place but we call it personal responsibility not binging- for a 16 yr old its called parental responsibility, just imagine how things would change if the kids parents were now liable to be charged with a crime, you know not keeping him on a lead or something - involuntary manslaughter, perhaps thats the sort of "rule" they should be asking uncle nanny john for!!

[Mudfart]

teaching kids their boundaries used to come in the form of a good smack, or taking it further a good hiding. now its un pc to touch kids etc, and yes we are accepting of pc and all that ghay shit, but beware it comes with consequences. When society is forced to change its rules, there arent ONLY good consequences, there will always be a negative offset. This is the Yin-Yang principle.
I can prove this.
If everytime society improved itself only, with no negativity, then surely by now we would be utopian, with absolute harmony, making everyone happy all of the time?.
If the answer is no, then three further questions: How far away from it are we, and are we any closer?
And: how fucked up are we to be so far away from it?.
God help the old and infirmed when I am that age, coz society is going to treat them worse than they already do.

[Latte]

These days?
I was born in 1962 and it was happening then. I new exactly what was right and what was wrong.
And heres the irony, I still do!
Yes I bent a few rules a little as a teenager (sometimes to breaking point) who didn't?
I dont beleive my parents ever blamed the then Government about any wrong doing I did.
The only notiable difference is, I never died as a result of my 'rule bending' whatever that may have been. I also knew my limits and boundries.

Thanks Mum and Dad.

Actually I was trying to say the same thing..... but re reading my post I see how badly it was put across As you were.

[mashman]

Agree tank thats fours'es at our place but we call it personal responsibility not binging- for a 16 yr old its called parental responsibility, just imagine how things would change if the kids parents were now liable to be charged with a crime, you know not keeping him on a lead or something - involuntary manslaughter, perhaps thats the sort of "rule" they should be asking uncle nanny john for!!

That's just utterly fuckin rediculous. They tried it with Truancy in the UK... your kid doesn't go to school, you get jailed... Truancy rates are still rising... you miss the fact that the kids may hate their parents because of the rules and regs laid down and enforced like laws... by all means be a parent and potentially get jailed for bad parenting... but how do you know that a kid skivin school is lack of parental supervision? Some people have to work to survive you know!!!!!!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...y-parents-jail

These "initiatives" have got to be some of the most ill conceived i've ever seen...