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Thread: Ohlins rear shock shim stacks for NZ road conditions

  1. #1
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    Ohlins rear shock shim stacks for NZ road conditions

    I hear that it's not enough just to fit a second-hand Ohlins rear shock to your bike and expect everything to be okay. Seems there are several things to consider.
    1. Shock needs to have been serviced (done)
    2. Need spring to suit my weight and riding style (okay)
    3. Need correct preload (done)
    4. Need to adjust length of shock (done)
    5. Need to set slow-speed compression and rebound dampening (recommended settings work fine)
    6. Need to know that shim stack is set up for riding conditions (hmmm...need to check that one)

    Since any adjustment of the shim stack would be a job for the Ohlins agent, I have a question for you, Robert. When you pull a shock apart, can you look at the shim stack and say to yourself "aha -- that's a setup for US conditions; it won't really do a good job on NZ roads" or do you say to yourself "gee, let's change the stack and see if it works better"?

    In other words, can you tell just by looking at a shim stack (numbers on the shims, shim thicknesses, diameters, etc.) if a stack is "right for Kiwi roads" or is it hit and miss until you get it right. If someone handed you a shim stack from a stock set up perfectly for a place where they have nice, smooth roads, would you instantly know that it wouldn't be optimal for NZ conditions (lumpy roads).

    The reason is my Ohlins will be due for a service in a bit, and I want to know if you can easily tell if its shim stack is optimal for solo riding on NZ roads. Could you recognise a mis-matched shim stack if you saw one, and make a suggestion to the client to make a change? Or doesn't it really matter that much? Or is it damned near impossible to "read" shim stacks like a mechanic would read a spark plug.

  2. #2
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    First off ( and it doesnt neccessarily apply in your singular case ) its amazing how many people out there think Ohlins ( or any other shock ) is a ''one size fits all'' and all those external adjusters make them fully adjustable. NOT SO! You may get the shock to fit, BUT.............
    1) Is the base length and stroke correct for the bike it is being bastardised into?
    2) Is the spring rate suitable, linkages, swingarm leverage, bike weight etc all have an influence on that.
    3) Does everything clear properly and therefore not create any safety related issues through the full arc of allowable swingram movement ( on this one point alone this is where Im really at odds with ''kiwi can do'' and No 8 wire mentality as there are too many people out there with the finesse of an elephant. But also in fairness there are also those that have their act together and have more than only enough knowledge to be dangerous.
    4) Is the internal valving, the piston type ( there are many )and the bypass bleed circuitry compatible or able to be cost effectively changed to suit the motion ratio that the linkage imparts to it?

    Its also amazing how many people may ring up and ask ( for example )'' I bought this 1992 model Ohlins YZ250 shock real cheap and want to fit it into my 2009 YZF250'' ( Sight unseen )'' what will it cost to make it fit ( and work ) I only want to spend a couple of hundred.....'' You feel like flippantly answering ''how long is a piece of string? " or hold on Ill just go and find the batteries for my magic wand'' Of course anything is possible at a cost and you cannot precost anything sight unseen thats been to the moon and back several times. But, moreover its almost as if these punters think that time stands still and that an Ohlins shock ( or any other high quality aftermarket shock ) is just the same inside and the technology has not relentlessly progressed in the last 18 years or so. Just like oem stuff.

    When you purchase an Ohlins shock secondhand off Trade Me etc it pays ( like anything ) to check that the seller is not misrepresenting what it is for. Youd be amazed how many private sellers are conmen, stuff that dealers would get taken to the cleaners for! Every Ohlins shock that is made at the factory in Stockholm has a spec code stamped into its cylinder head. The cylinder head on a shock is the main casting that everything else screws onto such as the main body tube and the reservoir tube. This applies to most Ohlins shocks and will be accurate unless it has been modified or respec'd to suit something else and has not been restamped or is a one off custom build ( and we have made many over the years here in NZ ) The spec code will consist of a two letter prefix in capitals follwed by a 4 number suffix. For example YA 7891 is a Yamaha shock for a 2008 to 10 R6, first spec supercession.

    We offer a FOC service in this respect, if you are contemplating buying a secondhand Ohlins shock we ask that you get the spec number off the seller and may ask some other bits and pieces. We then can verify exactly what it is for and even within a margin of error work out if it is feasible and at what cost to fit to a different model of bike. Obviously some common sense has to prevail here, if the bikles are widly different then its highly unlikely that respec to suit is economically sensible.

    As the only factory appointed Ohlins distributor to New Zealand we have exclusive and password restricted access to a Distributor website that gives us a database of spec codes and a whole host of technical info and ongoing factory updates, no one else in NZ has access without our approval.

    So in answer to your questions we have the Ohlins spec cards to refer to as a baseline. In parallell to that we have our own empirical experience ( 25 years in the suspension game and 13 years with exclusive distribution and direct personal access to the Ohlins factory including their racing department who are at the forefront of MotoGP and WSBK ) We also ask you a whole load of questions in respect of your personal stats, personal speed, tyres being used and road (or circuits) predominantly ridden on.

    Everyone is different and we tune the shock to the individual, as I said using the baseline setting but with modifications to suit the rider and road conditions. We get it right 95% of the time, if its not quite right we undertake to change it at no further cost excepting courier recovery fees. We pride ourself on that aspect of our business.

    If the guy who says he can service your shock is not Ohlins trained and doesnt have access to that database then he is conning you, he will not be doing the job properly
    I have had heat over the years for restricting access but Id rather uphold standards and too many have belied business trust.

    And yes, we can for all intents and purposes ''read'' shim stacks.

    Hope this all helps!

    Ph: 06 751 2100 * Email: robert@kss.net.nz
    Mob: 021 825 514 * Fax: 06 751 4551

  3. #3
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    I think that guy was only asking if there is a common setup for NZ that can be applied to make a used shocks better in an easier/quicker way, or if the only way is to do a full surgery?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmoot View Post
    I think that guy was only asking if there is a common setup for NZ that can be applied to make a used shocks better in an easier/quicker way, or if the only way is to do a full surgery?
    As I said everyone is different. Point of fact one mans meat can be another mans poison. But yes we have general experience and feel for what is required for our local roading conditions , different types of bikes and rider expectations. I embellished my answer with a whole load more ''diatribe'' to illustrate what often happens and his questions gave me that opportunity.
    The main target audience of all high quality high performance aftermarket shocks is of course predominantly the first world Northern European and North American countries. Sure they have bumpy roads but the reality also is that they have a much much higher ratio of relatively smooth roads. We of course have a very high ratio of bumpy roads and bad surfaces that will place maximum challenge on the suspension. Thats where local knowledge and experience comes into play, and ITS NOT JUST ABOUT SPRING RATE.

    If I may also take the opportunity here.... we have been in negotiation with Ohlins Racing AB Sweden for months. Given the weakness of the $US and that theres lot of ''dumping'' going on by US companies we have been able to negotiate a better buy price off Ohlins. AS OF RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT PRICE REDUCTIONS. Allied with our local knowledge, strong record of backup service and exclusive access to Ohlins technical database that means we can overall offer a better deal than a US company or anyone parallell importing ( no backup or abysmal backup )

    Ph: 06 751 2100 * Email: robert@kss.net.nz
    Mob: 021 825 514 * Fax: 06 751 4551

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmoot View Post
    I think that guy was only asking if there is a common setup for NZ that can be applied to make a used shocks better in an easier/quicker way, or if the only way is to do a full surgery?
    ''Full surgery'' as you put it is of course neccessary to establish that the internal valving stacks and internal setting parts ( pistons, bleed jets, needle profiles, poppett springs ) conform to the information on the specification card and within a sensible ''bandwidth of tuning range'' from there.

    Ph: 06 751 2100 * Email: robert@kss.net.nz
    Mob: 021 825 514 * Fax: 06 751 4551

  6. #6
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    I believe CKT are more than capable of coming up with an answer to your shock, based on the internal shim stack, bleed, piston etc for New Zealand conditions.

    As Robert has said, CKT/Ohlin's NZ stand by there brand with in house "Factory" Trained technicians!

    Not people who read forums and a mate from over seas on the internet to reccomend what to do to help fix any problems.
    I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots! ALBERT EINSTEIN

  7. #7
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    Hello Robert,

    I believe my Ohlins is the proper model for the 2001 R6. You serviced it a couple of years ago. At the time, I didn't think to ask you if the shim stack, bleed, piston, etc. were "suitable for NZ." Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I was thinking to myself that when I send the shock down to you for its next overhaul, you might check out its internals and see if they look about right for NZ.
    I'm really happy with the shock, and have been for the last 8 years -- but ignorance can be bliss. I'll also have to get you to fix the hydraulic preload -- it has gradually lost all its "lifting ability" (We discussed this on this forum several months ago.)
    Just out of interest, if you find out that the internals are set up for "glassy smooth roads," will I need to get a slightly heavier spring? (Am running a 70 Nmm spring, which is as light as I would want to go. The shock has never bottomed out, and it does give a really compliant ride -- I can really feel the suspension working and soaking up the bumps) (I tried a 80 Nmm previously, but it felt a little harsh.)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Taylor View Post
    But yes we have general experience and feel for what is required for our local roading conditions , different types of bikes and rider expectations. I embellished my answer with a whole load more ''diatribe'' to illustrate what often happens and his questions gave me that opportunity.
    Very good.

    In my line of work, we specialise on business message to customer, and the key point that we often see becoming a barrier to convert audience to customers is overinformationing. Sometimes we think that offering a lot of information can be helpful to the audience in making their decision. But often the reality is it becomes overwhelming as in general those people don't have the same knowledge level as you do being in the business for a long time.

    A lot of businesses have a problem translating their jargons and "industry-specific language" into English.

    Just my 2c.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmoot View Post
    Very good.

    In my line of work, we specialise on business message to customer, and the key point that we often see becoming a barrier to convert audience to customers is overinformationing. Sometimes we think that offering a lot of information can be helpful to the audience in making their decision. But often the reality is it becomes overwhelming as in general those people don't have the same knowledge level as you do being in the business for a long time.

    A lot of businesses have a problem translating their jargons and "industry-specific language" into English.

    Just my 2c.


    Re Overinformationing

    that is something I have been saying to Robert for years
    I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots! ALBERT EINSTEIN

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Re Overinformationing

    that is something I have been saying to Robert for years


    Didn't he get it?
    Nunquam Non Paratus

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post


    Didn't he get it?

    Ha Ha, No what i was meaning by my above post is

    Some times people with to much information in front of them, can actually be dangerous, as they do not fully understand what is happening when some thing is changed.

    And to just read a manual, is NOT the way to learn how to set a motor bike suspension up
    I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots! ALBERT EINSTEIN

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmoot View Post
    A lot of businesses have a problem translating their jargons and "industry-specific language" into English.
    It's not a bug. It's a feature.

    Steve
    "I am a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."
    "read what Steve says. He's right."
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    WTB: Hyosung bikes or going or not.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerousBastard View Post
    It's not a bug. It's a feature.

    Steve
    Yeah, but no-one's interested in the chemical formula and molecular structure of the average sno-freeze.

  14. #14
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    Its a balance but I believe that in most cases it helps sales because it shows you are prepared to go the extra mile. Its also a point of difference in showing that we are not a faceless warehouse with many different products and are a master of none.
    You also have to ( in the face of overseas internet sales and parallell importing parasites ) show many positive points of difference there too. That you are not only in it for a return but also derive satisfaction from knowing your product inside out and are very prepared to ensure that your customers are as happy as possible.
    Anybody can sell suspension units, but not everybody is prepared to understand and back them up to the nth degree. To be honest I get a kick out of helping people and helping them to understand, thats a BIG point of difference to the ''Harvey Normans'' and ''Warehouses'' of this world.

    Ph: 06 751 2100 * Email: robert@kss.net.nz
    Mob: 021 825 514 * Fax: 06 751 4551

  15. #15
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    There are Warehouse shops, there are helpful shops, and there are Amway/Avon reps.

    Pick a balance point, Mr. Taylor.

    Warehouse shops don't talk, don't help, pick your own stuff and pay for them.

    Helpful shops answer questions when asked, offer greetings and appear happy and helpful. They don't preach, they don't overwhelm, they don't pummel people and punch them into a realisation of their desperate uninformed poor state.

    And there are Amway/Avon reps with thousands of brochures, why they are better than everyone else, and why their products are superior, and why people shouldn't buy other market-garden variety, and why people should be fully informed in how to use their product, and why people should only come to them with questions, and why they have the whole range, and why they are the only authorised distributors for these products, and why getting them somewhere else may mean doom and suffering, and why.....why....why do I even need to care...

    P.S.
    Don't get me wrong though. I appreciate your information and find it very insightful at times.
    But when I go to a shop or when I ask questions, I just don't wanna get preached. I just want answers/products/relevant information.
    Elite Fight Club - Proudly promoting common sense and safe riding since 2024
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