Something has to be done...

**Motu** · 17th November 2003, 16:29

Coming back to Auckland after 10yrs I noticed a big change in the driving - 20 yrs ago it was very aggressive - you couldn't change lanes,that was a no no and you paid for it,you could sit all day waiting to get into a line of traffic,no way would anyone be couteous enough to let you in.

Now we are more international - people realise that a lane change is not pushing in,but a need to be in a certain lane.A line of traffic will open to let you in.Personaly I think the standard of driving has improved vastly - which makes those who aren't up to speed stand out.

**danb** · 25th November 2003, 21:17

Well Hey, I live in Howick just down the road from Chinatown (Meadowlands), I sorry to say you can help but be raciest if you live around here and see how appalling the asion drivers are

Not to mention the bad drivers around Manukau and Otara aswell

The Land and Transport System are going to have to do something fast and even if more Police have to be brougt onto the streets from "somewhere". Too bad for us riders who have to put up with all the crap from the police out on the open roads

**Goddess of Goof** · 25th November 2003, 22:32

Originally posted by danb
if you live around here and see how appalling the asion drivers are
The Land and Transport System are going to have to do something fast

When I was last in touch with the Ulysses Motorcycle Club website, there was a guy called Howard who was organising a petition on this very subject.

He wanted the International Drivers Licence to be Not Issued to visiting students, not only Asians, but all other nationalities as well. Their youthfulness and inexperience, together with ignorance of our driving culture and conditions is a fatal mix.

I believe Howard wanted the Ministry of Transport to enforce their rule that all under 25 yr olds must drive with a valid, New Zealand licence. Our own NZ young men and women have to pass all the stages of our tests. Why not visiting students? I agree with Howard that visiting international students ought to be under the same regime. It is time the whole International Driver's Licence regime was examined and updated anyway. It's a bit out of date nowadays.

I believe the Government will not look at it favourably, because of our anti-discrimination laws, which forbid different treatment on the very grounds of age and race. Well, our existing licencing regime makes reference to a young person's age "under 18" or "over 20" for example, so why that can't be enforced for all under 25's, I don't know. Is there a lawyer in the ranks ?

anyway, don't know what happened to Howard's petition. Anyone know ?

**twistymover** · 26th November 2003, 01:31

Originally posted by BestFun

"He wanted the International Drivers Licence to be Not Issued to visiting students, not only Asians, but all other nationalities as well. Their youthfulness and inexperience, together with ignorance of our driving culture and conditions is a fatal mix.

I believe Howard wanted the Ministry of Transport to enforce their rule that all under 25 yr olds must drive with a valid, New Zealand licence."

Good idea. It's about safety for us all, including all students.

**brockhaus** · 26th November 2003, 06:32

Hi!

Hope I'm also welcome to add my opinion although I've never been to NZ.

I don't know the situation in NZ but as far as I know the International Drivers Licence is normally issued in the home country.
Bilateral law between countries makes it possible to drive with the International Licence for a limited time (+/- 3 to 6 months depending on the country) without getting the local licence.

As far as I know China does not accept the International Licence. One has to apply for a special permit (for Austrians and maybe also for Kiwis).
I think for countries which do not accept the international licence their citizens should have to apply for a special permit -- also with a driving test.

It would be interesting what students from New Zealand, which study abroad, are thinking about getting the licence of the foreign country.
I don't know the price for a motorcycle licence in New Zealand; in Austria a student would have to pay 1700NZD and the same for getting a licence for a car. Converting a licence with practical test is cheaper (500NZD or so).

I was an international student in South Africa and was happy to be able to drive with my Austrian licence. (On the other side of the road!!).
I did the licence for a motorcycle in South Africa and I'm happy that there are possibilities to convert the licence.

Please take in mind that normally things that apply to foreigners in New Zealand also obtain for Kiwis in the other countries -- correct me if I'm wrong...
And I'm sure that students from NZ are happy if they can drive with an International Licence abroad......

Do you think a age limit (25) is sufficient to distinguish between people with and without driving experience?
There are people with 20 and 100.000km experience and others with 50 with less then 30.000km......

cu, Marcus

p.s. Do you think that all people from NZ are good drivers? Also if they have a old licence and haven't driven their vehicles for many years?

**Lou Girardin** · 26th November 2003, 07:05

They are very good points Marcus, but our problem is that Asians are now 20% of Aucklands population and a significant number of them are driving on foreign or no licences.
I don't think Kiwi's make up that proportion of any other country except perhaps for Queensland.
Lou

**Motu** · 26th November 2003, 07:11

When I was dishing out rental cars and bikes to tourists all we wanted to see was a license - any license,just so long as it was proof they could drive the vehicle.Bike licenses were different - some countries didn't have them and some had a complete seperate license.Didn't have any problems....cept people riding scooters with only the car license....young bucks driving the Suzi jeeps who thought they were Possum(4x4s don't handle like a rally car)

These were Kiwi's,Aussie's,Yanks,Canuks and Euros - hardly ever saw an Asian...they go in tour buses.

**brockhaus** · 26th November 2003, 07:22

Lou, so the problem is not the age but the absence of any licence. So an age limit would not change the situation but taking their vehicle away or giving them a big fine if they are driving without a valid licence should help. In Austria, Germany and South Africa you have to convert the licence if you stay longer than (I think) 6 months. Depending on the issuing country with or without a driving test.

cu, Marcus

p.s. Have to watch TV now -- there's a documentation about New Zealand

**Sharkey** · 26th November 2003, 07:45

I know of a shocking story about a home stay student staying with a friend of my families who decided he wanted a car and so went and bought a 7 series bmw. The host family said he wasn't allowed to drive it until he got a licence, so Daddy posted an international one out from Taiwan. Did the same with a motorcycle. Not a lesson to be had.

Having said that, I think many Kiwi males need to take a few deep breaths and recognise that they were crap drivers too once. In fact many still are. In fact, most of the fatal crashes you hear about........

**What?** · 26th November 2003, 08:17

Originally posted by brockhaus
Hi!

Hope I'm also welcome to add my opinion although I've never been to NZ.

Please take in mind that normally things that apply to foreigners in New Zealand also obtain for Kiwis in the other countries

p.s. Do you think that all people from NZ are good drivers? Also if they have a old licence and haven't driven their vehicles for many years?

Hi Marcus,

Voicing your opinion is a big bit of what this site is all about. You are welcome.

You are dead right about reciprocal arrangements, but some of the problem we have here (includes a couple of very high profile cases) involves rich kid foreign students who have never held a license anywhere, and whose parents don't even know that their offspring have got themselves a car.

No - the average Kiwi driver is crap. Sit a test at 15 years old, then never again until 80.

**MikeL** · 26th November 2003, 08:29

Re International Driving Permits:
When I first went to Europe many years ago the IDP was mandatory as national licences were not accepted. The Permit was valid for 1 year and if you stayed longer than that you had to apply for a local licence. I drove throughout France, Spain, Italy and Britain for 2 years on an IDP without problems. But in more recent years the IDP has become redundant as most countries (at least the ones I have been to) accept a NZ licence. There must have been some international agreement signed a few years ago. This is the problem, because the reciprocal rights aspect makes it difficult for one country to tighten up the regulations unilaterally. But something still needs to be done.

**Motu** · 26th November 2003, 11:38

A mate of mine had an Asian driver pull out and smash his car last year - she was a mess.The Asian had no license,so he just pulled out a wad of notes and gave my mate $500 - shit,he had only paid $400 for the old Laser 6 years ago!!!

**Lou Girardin** · 26th November 2003, 13:01

There is an international convention on reciprocal driving rights.
You can drive in NZ for a year on some foreign licences and there is no test at all for that period.
The other problem is that people have been passing off forged licences and our authorities have been none the wiser.
Lou