Would YOU allow this?

[Maha]

Not entirely true - seems they have a bit of a Navajo trail thing I have been told.

I just thought of that other Pub.....The Geyser Tavern!
Anyway...um Navajo ya say?..... nope never did see any squaw, whaka blondes but no squaw.

[saxet]

It seems pretty clear that banning gang patches is in NO WAY going to help with the gang problem. It's sort of like the old ideas of not talking about sexual abuse. Hiding things under the carpet just makes it harder to confront them. Ban colours and something else will signify allegiances. A rolled-up trouser leg, or a certain brand of boots, or a cap worn in a particular way, or a tattoo of some sort. Knee-jerk reactionary politicing does more for politicians careers than the safety of our communities.

I don't know of any country that has effectively dealt with gang crime. I know that this incident is particularly emotive, but there are gangs of all sorts in effect here and all round the world. White supremacists, Asian triads, East european mafioso, Maori street gangs, Biker gangs. I think that ripping the t-shirt off a child is abominable, but by NO means anywhere near the worst of gang crime in New Zealand.

Have you seen the follow-up article in today's paper about Black Power saying that THEY will punish the person who threatened the kid. They don't want this attention. Newspaper coverage is bad for their drug business.

I suspect that gang behaviour and mentality is something very deep-rooted in the human psyche. I think the same behaviour is represented by corprate entities that will pursue profit at any cost, including intimidation, murder and manipulation. As long as our communal global behaviour is so drenched in hypocrisy, our actions to curb violence will come up short. The idea that we can use violence to impose what WE want on others is at the heart of gang violence, war, corporate exploitation of developing nations and the environment - and also the majority of 'justice' systems.

Not that I have any solutions, but I do believe that using vigilante violence to run whoever you don't like out of town will contribute to our social problems with violence rather than solve them.

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." --H.L. Mencken

Thats long, scary but , in my opinion accurate.

[avgas]

I just thought of that other Pub.....The Geyser Tavern!
Anyway...um Navajo ya say?..... nope never did see any squaw, whaka blondes but no squaw.

War trail from one gang HQ to town to the other HQ.
Apparently a no go area when you see the colors out.
t'was what I was told dunno if its true.

[munster]

well I might just head into Whakatane in my NZ Blood Donor T-shirt. Anyone know any good pubs to visit?

[firefighter]

Solution. Pit of death. There will never be another way. Cull em' off as they come along.

[SS90]

Solution. Pit of death. There will never be another way. Cull em' off as they come along.

With out trying to sound like a bleeding heart liberal, AND, every part of my body agreeing with the "pit of death" solution, I guess it would be timely to remind us all that prevention is better that the cure, and (broken record time), the increase of incidents of (extreme) violence is in direct corralation to the "P" epidemic.

I'm sorry to bring it back to that, but facts are facts.

I will admit I am an idealist, and, as such, I have flawed thinking when it comes to such things, but really, it boils down to how bad the (general) public are at raising their kids.

In the lower end of the income spectrum, we constantly hear stories of abused, neglected kids (the Kahui twins story), and a "system" that fails to protect them, not only because of people "missing warning signs", but also because the "system" is grossly under funded, but, as a by product of the funding issue, also poorly staffed and under resourced.

We spend millions on roads, bridges, etc, just to cut our travel time/ ease congestion, (think of any other example you like), but, when it comes to the safety, wellbeing and education of our "at risk" kids, we all cry in outrage when it comes to a wee kid being (in this case) assaulted, or (even worse) killed, but then we forget about it (because the All Blacks are playing!!!!!!!!!!!, or what ever), and, in reality, all we have to do is increase EDUCATION resources (as they do in other countries) and stop the problem before it starts.

Increase not only the number of teachers, but increase their wages, (really easy to do, just lower the tax they pay) reduce their hours (not the student hours, just the teachers), and you will see an instant increase in the motivation from the teachers that will flow on to the students.

Also, the kids will see their teachers with a (highish) level of income, and think "hey, that's a good option for me, I'll study, work hard and become a teacher!"

It's called a "role model"......we need more......

The problem is not what these people are doing, it's WHY they are doing it that needs to be addressed.

They are uneducated, and trying to make a living. Crime is their only option. Because, really, would you employ someone with no skills?

the "system" left these people with no skills, let's change that before we all get beaten to death for wearing a black polo neck.

[firefighter]

With out trying to sound like a bleeding heart liberal, AND, every part of my body agreeing with the "pit of death" solution, I guess it would be timely to remind us all that prevention is better that the cure,

Yep. To achieve the ideal of the prevention rather than cure, which is what's been tried for the last million years and achieved nothing, we need to cull off the shit now, alongside the positive role model situation. You cannot have one without the other, it's been tried and does'nt work.

I am however so far right I need a cane to lean on........

[imdying]

Fucking black power make me laugh... apparently they don't think it's right to beat up 4 year olds. How very nice of them to have the dreggs of a social concience.

So gangsters, at what age does it become acceptable to bully, intimidate, rob, assault, or otherwise abuse people? 5 years old? 8 years old? 13? 18? 21? Stupid thugs.

[Dave Lobster]

Fucking black power make me laugh... apparently they don't think it's right to beat up 4 year olds. How very nice of them to have the dreggs of a social concience.

So gangsters, at what age does it become acceptable to bully, intimidate, rob, assault, or otherwise abuse people? 5 years old? 8 years old? 13? 18? 21? Stupid thugs.

As soon as they're white, I think you'll find.

[imdying]

No, that can't be right, that sounds racist, and only middle class whites can be racists

[Dave Lobster]

No, that can't be right, that sounds racist, and only middle class whites can be racists

Rubbish. Racism is a crime.. and crime is for n*ggers.

[husky450]

A teenager got beaten up on Napier several weeks ago for wearing a red t-shirt as well. Then one of my workmates sons got hassled for having red laces on his school shoes.
maybe we all need to start wearing white hoods to show we don't belong to one of the gangs