No more domestic applications (but international fine WTF!)

**Tank** · 14th May 2010, 16:13

Did NZ ever have a educated person before interest free government loans?

**peasea** · 14th May 2010, 19:28

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

Don't forget treaty agreements. They're a fucking bargain too.

What the fuck ever. Shoulda shot all the cunts when we had the chance.

Key was right about dinner but the fuckers hate their own history.

**peasea** · 14th May 2010, 19:59

Originally Posted by Tank

Did NZ ever have a educated person before interest free government loans?

For god's sake! That should read "an educated person" so NO!

Fuckwits, I'm surrounded by fuckwits.

**rainman** · 14th May 2010, 20:13

Originally Posted by davereid

...you will pay government departments, fees they set, for services you dont want, just because they say you must have them.

Can you propose a system that, in aggregate, delivers a better set of outcomes to all, considering the equity issues implicit in starting from what we have today? Broad-based taxation has been a popular solution for creating a functioning society for a long time and in many places.

Originally Posted by Tank

Did NZ ever have a educated person before interest free government loans?

Wasn't it formerly free?

Originally Posted by peasea

What the fuck ever. Shoulda shot all the cunts when we had the chance.

Key was right about dinner but the fuckers hate their own history.

Lovely. Is all genocide is OK by you, or is it only as long as it's shooting the darkies? I spent a fair chunk of my life fighting racist neanderthals like you, hoped I had moved to a civilised country.

The issue with Key isn't the history. It's his fucking shameful performance in a role that calls for some statesmanship. In any other context he would have been fired. If he had any sense of accountability he'd resign.

**Dave Lobster** · 14th May 2010, 20:29

Originally Posted by peasea

What the fuck ever. Shoulda shot all the cunts when we had the chance.

Key was right about dinner but the fuckers hate their own history.

Whoops.. i missed off my 'sarcasm' icon..

**mashman** · 14th May 2010, 20:38

Originally Posted by davereid

You also pay another 12.5% when you spend your money. If you own a home you will pay another $2000-$3000 a year in rates. If you insure it ypu will pay another tax, the fire service levy. If you purchase petrol, alcohol, or use a vehicle you will pay another lot, and you will pay government departments, fees they set, for services you dont want, just because they say you must have them.

fuckin hell i've got a lot of tax to give... i feel violated... any accountants here that fancy helping me dodge as many taxes as possible

... then again, I have a social conscience... bollocks, rock and a hard place, fuck 'em, or be fucked...

**peasea** · 15th May 2010, 00:15

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

Whoops.. i missed off my 'sarcasm' icon..

Meaning????????

**Dave Lobster** · 15th May 2010, 06:52

Originally Posted by peasea

Meaning????????

The treaty settlements aren't a bargain for the taxpayer.

**peasea** · 15th May 2010, 07:08

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

The treaty settlements aren't a bargain for the taxpayer.

Have to agree; and the nation cannot afford it. There are too many snouts in a small trough and as usual those with their snouts buried the deepest are only ones who gain. They talk about the good of their tribes but it's the top dogs who run off with all the goodies, never do they share.

**rainman** · 15th May 2010, 09:00

Originally Posted by peasea

Have to agree; and the nation cannot afford it.

Not an issue of budgets but one of justice. Ideally the determination would not be made by the offending party, but whatever. Consider the current Tuhoe issue. I do not know the full details of this so could be missing something significant, but on a simple level if the crown historically stole Tuhoe land (and Tuhoe never signed the treaty, so that is what it looks like) then the crown must give it back. This is not a budget issue, but a justice issue: one of repatriating ill-gotten gains. I understand Tuhoe only want the crown bits too, so as to not create fresh grievances with current commercial owners - that seems pretty grown up to me, tbh.

Imagine I came around to your place and stole your bike (and smacked your family around, if the analogy is to be fully correct, but no matter). I'm much bigger than you, so you don't just come around and grab it back. You know I stole your bike, and you did not lend it to me. I don't lock it up so you can ride it from time to time, but the ownership papers have been changed to my name.

Some time later we start talking about returning it, and you are so keen to get it back you don't mind the fact that I have smashed off a mirror and indicator, and scratched the fairings. That's OK, you just want your bike back. You'll even let me come around and ride it if I want to, just want the ownership back. So we start talking, and during the negotiations I suddenly say "na fuckit it's mine now, not changing, piss off." Then I insult your mother but claim I was only joking.

What would you want to do about this, and how would you feel? It's not an issue of who can afford what, it's an issue of what is right.

Real ethical principles are not subservient to money.

Originally Posted by peasea

They talk about the good of their tribes but it's the top dogs who run off with all the goodies, never do they share.

Now there I won't disagree with you. So, how would you fix that?

**Dave Lobster** · 15th May 2010, 09:06

Originally Posted by rainman

Imagine I came around to your place and stole your bike (and smacked your family around, if the analogy is to be fully correct, but no matter). I'm much bigger than you, so you don't just come around and grab it back. You know I stole your bike, and you did not lend it to me. I don't lock it up so you can ride it from time to time, but the ownership papers have been changed to my name.

You could always leave it to your great grandchildren to sort out, and they claim back monetary compensation figures that they've pulled from their arses.

Originally Posted by rainman

So, how would you fix that?

Easy. Stop handing over cash. Tell them to get fucking over it. Earn your own living. Most of the people that have come to this country, or even been born here in the last 100 years didn't agree to the treaty either.

**peasea** · 15th May 2010, 09:15

Originally Posted by rainman

Not an issue of budgets but one of justice.

For shit that happened hundreds of years ago? An apology for some of the shit might be order, might be, and then close the cheque book and move on. Why the fuck whould I/we be paying for age-old screw-ups, if that's what they were.

**peasea** · 15th May 2010, 09:16

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

they claim back monetary compensation figures that they've pulled from their arses.

Stop handing over cash. Tell them to get fucking over it. Earn your own living. Most of the people that have come to this country, or even been born here in the last 100 years didn't agree to the treaty either.

Agreed, thank you.