Countersteering vs body leaning?

[MSTRS:Me]

But theres a whole heap of guys on hear try to say that just leaning and weight pegs turns a corner....and your all very very fucking wrong....with little understanding of physics.
YOU CAN NOT STEER A BIKE BY JUST LEANING!!!! YOU ALL FUCKING WRONG!!

you may be getting the wrong end of the stick there, peg weighting and leaning (techniques) can steer bikes cos a result of those actions is a bar push/pull movement as well, which results in countersteering (physics), maybe thats what the people you are refering to were meaning?

Weighting one side of a bike, however you do it, will make a bike turn. Direct bar input is not reqd. Hands off the bars, moderate downhill (to maintain speed) and various body contortions. Try it - I have. It works.
But it is not a viable alternative to the push/pull method of turning a bike.

[Expert]

Read my post again.
The stunt guy illustrates that body mass keeps the bike turning, his weight on the inside of the bike and leaning the bike makes the bars want to turn in that direction because of the castor effect. the pressure/contact point of the tyre is behind the centreline of the headstock and this will turn the bars naturally.
You pressure the inside bar when you are cornering according to the angle of lean, the position of your body mass, how tight you want to be turning against the centrifugal force trying to keep the bike upright. It's a juggling act.

I'm saying that countersteering initiates a turn, body mass and positive input on the bars keeps the the bike turning. you can't countersteer all the way around a corner, that's called oversteering like what someone said about speedway riders.

aproach the corner, shift body weight to the inside of bike, positive input on the bars (turn where you want to go) bike wants to rotate around your body mass. if you pressure the inside bar too much while you're lent over and you don't reposition your body mass or alter your heading, you will fall off.

[MSTRS:Me]

AH, that makes (more) sense. Yes, you are right. All except for the 'positive pressure on the bars midturn'. Surely it depends on the bike (and rider) as to whether anything need be done to the bars to maintain a cornering arc?
I know that on the GSXR, I can drop into even a moderate corner, and essentially take my hands off the bars. The bike will maintain it's course unless I change something else.

[Expert]

Unfortunately not all corners have a constant radius or are without their unexpected obstacles i.e. wildlife, flora, manholes on the racing line etc. and you have to be able to tighten the turn, avoid or whatever to avoid a pile up.
Your bike is obviously a sports bike and these are set up with a minimum castor angle to promote quick steering, the headstock angle is very steep and the distance between the tyres' contact patch and the point where the headstock centreline touches the ground is shorter making the castor effect less pronounced, the leverage trying to turn the bars inwards is less, hence being able to take your hands off mid turn, this also allows you to be able to input into the bars very easily and get the bike to do what you want it to do.

[MSTRS:Me]

Which is what I was saying re bar input mid-corner depends on the bike.
Naturally, some adjustment of line is often required, in which case some additional counter-steering will need to happen. Once an arc is set up, simply turning the bars further into the arc to tighten up does not work.

[Expert]

Anybody know why it's possible to turn corners whilst wheelying?

[bogan]

Anybody know why it's possible to turn corners whilst wheelying?

for ones at decent speed its the same effect as for countersteering, turning bars leans bike; when its on back wheel leaning turns the back wheel much the same as the front wheel is turned in normal operation. And for slow speed wheelies when the front is barley spinning it must be same principals as unicycle.

[Spearfish]

this is a clip from Keith Codes twist of the wrist II DVD
This bike has a second set of bars welded straight over the factory and shows the BS related to peg weight as a realistic steering method.
The full DVD is much clearer with the science behind it and showing a movement meter on the factory bars.

[CHOPPA]

I can often let my partner steer the bike completely with her body weight moving side to side. She is not touching the bars and the bike turns.

That bike has BS on the front for a reason

[crystalball]

lol i remember my 1st bike my mates dad told me about counter steering and i should try it. so i did and lol i use to see how much i could do it i would turn the front wheel as much as i needed and sometimes use to see how much i could lol. and omg i use to lean it so freaken low that once i took it to bike shop to wire my headlight back on and they said my rims were scraped and pegs. but i 0.0 (old honda cb250) i dont actually try to do it anymore as i find it looks silly and be better on the moto x track doing that to do driffting. no need for it. just happens on its own but yes you can do it tho.

[Spearfish]

I can often let my partner steer the bike completely with her body weight moving side to side. She is not touching the bars and the bike turns.

That bike has BS on the front for a reason

Yep I guess so.

[onearmedbandit]

lol i remember my 1st bike my mates dad told me about counter steering and i should try it. so i did and lol i use to see how much i could do it i would turn the front wheel as much as i needed and sometimes use to see how much i could lol. and omg i use to lean it so freaken low that once i took it to bike shop to wire my headlight back on and they said my rims were scraped and pegs. but i 0.0 (old honda cb250) i dont actually try to do it anymore as i find it looks silly and be better on the moto x track doing that to do driffting. no need for it. just happens on its own but yes you can do it tho.

You were scraping your rims?

[Crisis management]

You were scraping your rims?

What, you mean you haven't done that?


All us good rider scrape our rims, ..........elbows, collarbones, faces

[MSTRS:Me]

I can often let my partner steer the bike completely with her body weight moving side to side. She is not touching the bars and the bike turns.

That bike has BS on the front for a reason

We all know you can ride. At the next round, can you do a lap with your hands off the bars. Some clever clogs can set you up with a foot accelerator, surely?

You were scraping your rims?

Yea, that was gilding the lily...

[R-Soul]

I can often let my partner steer the bike completely with her body weight moving side to side. She is not touching the bars and the bike turns.

That bike has BS on the front for a reason

then I put it to you that you are subcionsciously assisting her with your steering. Do you remove your hands from the bars?