Teachers only day

[oldrider]

it wasnt teachers that started this thread. and we have not been saying oh how horrible our jobs are. simply stating facts. if no - one made a misguided or i ll - infomed comment, i doubt anyone would have said anything to put em right by telling them how it is. we know hor difficult it is. i dont go home and tell me wife how hard me job is. i love it. it just boils my piss when people that dont know what they are talking about make damming statements

The point is, some of us believed you and thought you really do have employment contract condition problems but if everything is OK, I for one, withdraw my concern!

[MikeL]

Secondary school teachers' contracts are being negotiated at the moment. The PPTA is asking for a modest increase in salaries that will mean teachers at least keep up with inflation. The government has put forward several unacceptable proposals affecting working conditions, e.g. removing stated hours of work, making extracurricular compulsory) but has steadfastly refused to talk about salaries.
Here's my prediction:
The unacceptable proposals will be dropped in return for a nil salary round. If PPTA demurs, the government will start mentioning Greece, Spain, Portugal... and teachers will feel relieved that they have not had their salaries decreased by 5 or 10%...
The government will be happy because they have not only saved money but delivered a blow to a union that has always been a thorn in their flesh, the public will be happy because they think teachers are over-paid layabouts who have all those holidays and cause serious inconvenience to working parents by having a couple of training days a year and thus ignoring their responsibilities as babysitters, and if teachers are not happy they can always quit or move overseas, and their jobs can be filled by cheap imports from India and Sri Lanka...

[oldrider]

The government will be happy because they have not only saved money but delivered a blow to a union that has always been a thorn in their flesh,


the public will be happy because they think teachers are over-paid layabouts who have all those holidays and cause serious inconvenience to working parents by having a couple of training days a year and thus ignoring their responsibilities as babysitters,


and if teachers are not happy they can always quit or move overseas, and their jobs can be filled by cheap imports from India and Sri Lanka...

Then again, it could also end up a bit like this. (if I was going to comment on your post)

I really don't think any government of any persuasion are really bothered about this union. (unless you ask the union its self of course)

The public "misconception" has probably been brought about from comments and behaviours of the "lesser" performers of your "collective", unfortunately equality also means equal responsibility!

A collective reduces all of it's members down to the lowest common denominator! (mediocrity at best)

If teachers were on individual employment contracts, the higher performers (good teachers) could be higher paid, probably be happy and most likely to stay!

The poorer performers would be unhappy and leave the country and be replaced by "higher performing" imports from India and Sri Lanka! (or anywhere else where high performing teachers reside)

"Everyone" would then most likely be happy for a change!

[MikeL]

I think you're wrong about governments' attitude towards PPTA (and NZEI). I've been involved on and off in secondary teaching since the 70s and over much of this period it's been quite clear, particularly in pay negotiations, that the unions have wielded too much control for the liking of most governments. In recent years with union power generally declining, these 2 have remained relatively strong. There's no doubt the present government would love to break them.
As for public misconception, this attitude has been around for ever; it's true that the existence of mediocre teachers does nothing to counter it, but the "comments and behaviours" of these members of the profession are no more prominent than the comments and behaviours of equally incompetent office managers or builders or financial advisors or immigration consultants or whatever. But teachers continue to get stick and much of it is simple uninformed prejudice: "Those who can do, those who can't, teach."
I personally have nothing against individual employment contracts. I am no longer a member of the PPTA, for reasons which have nothing to do with the principle of unionism in general. As has been stated elsewhere, the problem with assessing teacher performance is a thorny one. I don't say it can't be done, but those who clamour for it usually insist on a quick, simple andcheap way of doing it, which will lead inevitably to injustices. I can imagine a way in which it could work, but it would be neither quick, simple nor cheap.
Your comment about "higher performing" imports from foreign countries makes me despair. You assume that teaching is a simple technocratic business to which simple economic principles can be applied. This is the same thinking that is seeing this country being sold off, bit by bit, to overseas interests, our autonomy diminished and our cultural identity imperilled. Do you think that it is a good thing for our young people to be taught by those for whom English is a second language and the history and traditions and culture of this country are simply something to be recited from a textbook?

[oldrider]

I think you're wrong about governments' attitude towards PPTA (and NZEI). I've been involved on and off in secondary teaching since the 70s and over much of this period it's been quite clear, particularly in pay negotiations, that the unions have wielded too much control for the liking of most governments. In recent years with union power generally declining, these 2 have remained relatively strong. There's no doubt the present government would love to break them.
As for public misconception, this attitude has been around for ever; it's true that the existence of mediocre teachers does nothing to counter it, but the "comments and behaviours" of these members of the profession are no more prominent than the comments and behaviours of equally incompetent office managers or builders or financial advisors or immigration consultants or whatever. But teachers continue to get stick and much of it is simple uninformed prejudice: "Those who can do, those who can't, teach."
I personally have nothing against individual employment contracts. I am no longer a member of the PPTA, for reasons which have nothing to do with the principle of unionism in general. As has been stated elsewhere, the problem with assessing teacher performance is a thorny one. I don't say it can't be done, but those who clamour for it usually insist on a quick, simple andcheap way of doing it, which will lead inevitably to injustices. I can imagine a way in which it could work, but it would be neither quick, simple nor cheap.
Your comment about "higher performing" imports from foreign countries makes me despair. You assume that teaching is a simple technocratic business to which simple economic principles can be applied. This is the same thinking that is seeing this country being sold off, bit by bit, to overseas interests, our autonomy diminished and our cultural identity imperilled. Do you think that it is a good thing for our young people to be taught by those for whom English is a second language and the history and traditions and culture of this country are simply something to be recited from a textbook?

I agree with many things you say but if something is not working, then to change it means doing something different, not just for different sake but hopefully smarter.

Unfortunately in NZ where "performance" payments do exist, they appear to be mismanaged and bonuses are paid to those who have patently failed to earn them.

Of course in their own defence they then label their critics as having no idea what it's all about, in the same way that teachers react to their critics!

Frankly, whether the contract is collective or individual, is of little consequence, it is the will and skill of the participants to work together to honour the agreement and determination to earn each other's mutual respect that makes it successful.

When we discuss these things it is too easy to set ones mind into a certain camp, assume too much of what the other intends and miss the point completely, we all seem to be guilty of this unfortunately.

I have had the good fortune to have experienced extreme changes in industrial relationships and have also had the opportunity to personally move the change and experience near utopian results.

I love to see people happy in their work and truly developing to be the best that they can be in their lives, it is extremely infectious and once experienced nothing else is acceptable.

It frustrates me to see so many unhappy work places in this country and I have formed the opinion (having spent considerable time in both camps) that strong unions are an indicator of even poorer management!

I don't really profess to have the answers to teachers problems but am simply trying to point out that if you do not do something different, don't expect any change.

It does get tiresome hearing or reading the same old complaints over and over from people with all the intelligence and skills required to change the problem, so one simply assumes it must be exacerbated by a lack of will in the complainants.

"It's a funny thing about life, if you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it". Somerset Maugham.