Dear Mr English, I don't want a tax cut

[Mully]

Can't we all just get along and celebrate the fact that Mully (and Mrs Mully) are going to be mortgage free much quicker?

Us kids don't like it when you grown-ups fight.

[shrub]

So you could earn good money - but choose do study because by your words you "dont need to, or particularly want to work more".

Yet despite your ability to earn more and be self sufficient - you choose to have a lifestyle that allows you to get money from the government (Working for families), and interest free student loans - and quite possibly accommodation allowances. (*not saying you get them - but you probably could given the numbers you just did / kids etc)

Yet you begrudge the people who do work hard and earn more money the tax cut - because it impacts the pool of money available to people like you who dont earn it out of a lifestyle choice. You are also choosing not to contribute as much (financially) to society by way of your taxes - because, well you have enough $ for you - and are quite happy to leave the paying of $ for others to the same people you are bagging.

There ladies and gentlemen is the mentality of the left.

And that ladies and gentlemen, is the mentality of the right.

You have absolutely no idea whether I use a student loan (actually my studies are paid for by a scholarship because my research project has been identified as being of long term value to a specific industry) orwhether I get working for families (which I don't); yet you accuse me of using them both because I am able to. I suspect that I see a little envy here, and possibly some projection - if you were eligible for those benefits, would you take them? You also have no idea what I pay in taxes, which is a reasonable amount and quite fair.

And i am completely self sufficient, yet you automatically assume that because I don't want to work full time that I'm some kind of bludger. You also imply that I don't work hard (I probably work a bloody sight harder than you) and begrudge the poor disadvantaged high income earners their tax cut. I never said that - you're great at jumping to conclusions, aren't you?. WHat I said was that I didn't need or want a tax cut, and that I'd rather the money was spent on making NZ a better place, and that i didn't believe a few extra dollars a week would motivate and encourage high income earners to achieve more.

However I do think making more money available for people to use to better themselves through education and professional development is a great idea.

Nice try, no cigar.

[shrub]

you believe that because I don't work full time in paid employment, and therefore am not earning as much as I could with a resulting decrease in the tax I could pay that i am somehow ripping the country off.

My research is going to have potential long term benefit to NZ and to NZ industry. From my research more money will be earnt in exports, more people will have jobs and the environment will be better off. So tell me how that isn't contributing to the greater good?

What do you do for a job? What are you contributing to the future?

[Tank]

And that ladies and gentlemen, is the mentality of the right.

You have absolutely no idea whether I use a student loan (actually my studies are paid for by a scholarship because my research project has been identified as being of long term value to a specific industry) or whether I get working for families (which I don't); yet you accuse me of using them both because I am able to. I suspect that I see a little envy here, and possibly some projection

You missed the part where I clearly said " (*not saying you get them - but you probably could given the numbers you just did / kids etc)"

- if you were eligible for those benefits, would you take them? You also have no idea what I pay in taxes, which is a reasonable amount and quite fair.

If I was elgible - would I take them - heck yes - but that wasnt the argument put forward. As for taxes - I dont know or care what you pay - Im talking PAYE here - and as you said - you have no particular interest in working full time - thus you minimized the amount you pay there.

And i am completely self sufficient, yet you automatically assume that because I don't want to work full time that I'm some kind of bludger.

No - I was saying that by not wanting to work full time - (your words - and one assumes post your uni work) - that you arnt contributing as much as you could if you chose to work full time. Thats not necessarily budging - but it leave a bigger bill for those that do work full time.

You also imply that I don't work hard (I probably work a bloody sight harder than you) and begrudge the poor disadvantaged high income earners their tax cut. I never said that - you're great at jumping to conclusions, aren't you?.

When you work - I have no idea if you work hard or not (and didnt infer that I did) - nor do you know how hard I work. As for begrudging the tax cuts to others - you may not have said it in those words exactly - but it sure is how it comes across.

WHat I said was that I didn't need or want a tax cut, and that I'd rather the money was spent on making NZ a better place, and that i didn't believe a few extra dollars a week would motivate and encourage high income earners to achieve more.

And that money to be spent on making a better place comes from wages - yet you say you have no particular interest in working full time - thus you are happy to use the services as they are provided - but expect others to pay more for them because they DO work full time - geddit?

However I do think making more money available for people to use to better themselves through education and professional development is a great idea.

Nice try, no cigar.

I dont smoke - its bad for you - and it also pisses me off my tax paying dollars going to people who smoke knowing its going to cause long term and expensive heath issues - that I pay for.

[Tank]

My research is going to have potential long term benefit to NZ and to NZ industry. From my research more money will be earnt in exports, more people will have jobs and the environment will be better off. So tell me how that isn't contributing to the greater good?

Im sure that we will see your fact on the $10 bill soon and all NZ'ers will know your name and you will be a national hero. Unless your research turns out to be pants - or like so many academics they over value their work etc etc

What do you do for a job? What are you contributing to the future?

Me - Im a strategist and help businesses make more money. You know - that pays for all those services.

[T.W.R]

actually my studies are paid for by a scholarship.

Dude that's funded by the Ministry of Education

[aprilia_RS250]

you believe that because I don't work full time in paid employment, and therefore am not earning as much as I could with a resulting decrease in the tax I could pay that i am somehow ripping the country off.

My research is going to have potential long term benefit to NZ and to NZ industry. From my research more money will be earnt in exports, more people will have jobs and the environment will be better off. So tell me how that isn't contributing to the greater good?

What do you do for a job? What are you contributing to the future?

Oh you poor thing, you're paying less tax and you think that's bad. All you really want to do is your research and earn just enough to get on by. One day you will write a book and ride your motorcycle, and live off an oil rag. This is how you think you should live, and you also think this is how everyone else should live too. Because afterall you're doing your post grad research which will shape the export industry of NZ and take it into a new, better, and prosperous direction. What's even worse is that if your research is successful the money will probably follow you, you'll end up like Sam Morgan and you'll be so depressed that you have all this cash but you just can't give it to the tax man... I feel for you man. I truly do.

[shrub]

Me - Im a strategist and help businesses make more money. You know - that pays for all those services.

Interesting. I'm curious to know who would pay money for strategies from someone who sees no value in research or education and who so readily jumps to incorrect conclusions based on ingrained assumptions. I wonder how much more money they make from your advice?

I was also amused to see that you admitted would enthusiastically accept working for families if you could, yet (incorrectly) condemned me for accepting it - pot - kettle? And the phrase "nice try, no cigar" was not a suggestion that you smoke. It's quite a common phrase dating back to the day when sideshow operators gave punters cigars as prizes and is a reference to your failed attempt to debate with me. But of course you knew that, didn't you?

And on that note, I have much better things to do than toy with you. Love your work and keep it up.

[shrub]

Oh you poor thing, you're paying less tax and you think that's bad. All you really want to do is your research and earn just enough to get on by. One day you will write a book and ride your motorcycle, and live off an oil rag. This is how you think you should live, and you also think this is how everyone else should live too. Because afterall you're doing your post grad research which will shape the export industry of NZ and take it into a new, better, and prosperous direction. What's even worse is that if your research is successful the money will probably follow you, you'll end up like Sam Morgan and you'll be so depressed that you have all this cash but you just can't give it to the tax man... I feel for you man. I truly do.

Yeah, it sucks to be me.

[Tank]

Interesting. I'm curious to know who would pay money for strategies from someone who sees no value in research or education and who so readily jumps to incorrect conclusions based on ingrained assumptions. I wonder how much more money they make from your advice?

Funnily enough - a few do, and they all seem to be doing OK. (Its called the real world - come visit us sometime)

I was also amused to see that you admitted would enthusiastically accept working for families if you could, yet (incorrectly) condemned me for accepting it

No - I said you are by choice reducing your income potential to a level that could put you to a level where you would be entitled despite being able to earn more. Somewhat different to someone who works their ass off and still only earns enough that they need it - big difference.

And the phrase "nice try, no cigar" was not a suggestion that you smoke. It's quite a common phrase dating back to the day when sideshow operators gave punters cigars as prizes and is a reference to your failed attempt to debate with me. But of course you knew that, didn't you?

Nope - was called humor - Im sure thay have tax payer funded night classes for that - you should sign up.

And on that note, I have much better things to do than toy with you. Love your work and keep it up.

Glad you like it - have a good day.

[aprilia_RS250]

My research is going to have potential long term benefit to NZ and to NZ industry. From my research more money will be earnt in exports, more people will have jobs and the environment will be better off.

Haha I have a feeling you're writing a thesis that'll pitch for the export sector to pay more tax wont ya! Because those dairy farmers really do earn too much with all that land, livestock, milking machines etc. Then the tax money can be spent on buying tree seeds and get people to plant them! AWESOME.

[Winston001]

Guys guys, try not to personalise this topic. Governments of all colours are obliged to make broad-brush policies and there will always be individual anomalies. The way to look at the Budget changes is to think of how other people will be affected by them - not you personally.

To keep myself grounded I relate money to loaves of bread. $26/wk is about 9 loaves which interestingly our household would consume in a week. So its a significant sum. If you don't need it, fine, support a charity. Again $26/wk is about what I donate to charity by auto payments.

I think the Budget is too generous given that the govt is borrowing $250 million/wk just to fund govt expenditure. We have become too generous as a nation and need only look at Greece for the eventual results.

[Flatcap]

I think the Budget is too generous given that the govt is borrowing $250 million/wk just to fund govt expenditure. We have become too generous as a nation and need only look at Greece for the eventual results.

Generous? How is taking less of my money generous? I'm being generous giving as much PAYE as I do...

Or are you saying govt expenditure should be cut more? If so, I agree

[Tank]

Generous? How is taking less of my money generous? I'm being generous giving as much PAYE as I do...

Or are you saying govt expenditure should be cut more? If so, I agree

Indeed - lets start with cancelling unemployment benefit for anyone after 12 months unless they do say 30 hours community work per week.

[rainman]

Have you had your feelings hurt for being denied a more senior role??

Not at all. I've looked at those in more senior roles and decided I do not want to join them. That is not the way to enlightenment.
I have been fucked over by a business for quite unjust reasons, with a large amount of lying and cheating involved, but that's just the ethics of making money. A.k.a. none. No hard feelings, just how it works.

In all seriousness, given we were never going to see anything that showed political courage or economic imagination from the current pack of idiots (as opposed to the last pack of idiots), this budget is probably not bad on balance. Predictably it offers little that isn't formulaic and very predictable, and probably won't actually change much, but it was better than I expected.

A good summary. But then I had pretty low expectations.

And that ladies and gentlemen, is the mentality of the right.

I wouldn't generalise, necessarily. Tank is quite especially mental.

Interesting. I'm curious to know who would pay money for strategies from someone who sees no value in research or education and who so readily jumps to incorrect conclusions based on ingrained assumptions.

Not to mention the inherent short-term thinking underpinning his pronouncements.

I think the Budget is too generous given that the govt is borrowing $250 million/wk just to fund govt expenditure. We have become too generous as a nation and need only look at Greece for the eventual results.

These tax cuts are not neutral as was claimed, either - there will apparently be greater borrowing as a result, and the inflation forecasts sound a bit horrendous. Haven't drilled into the details of it yet though.

Indeed - lets start with cancelling unemployment benefit for anyone after 12 months unless they do say 30 hours community work per week.

Sure, 'cos you can feed the kids and pay the rent from community work. And there won't be any increase in crime or hardship, and besides, they're just filthy bennies...

BTW, how do you expect people to job seek when they are working for free for 30 hours a week?

Using community work to build skills and move people off benefits = good. (But it does need jobs to be there for them to move to. Many people lack the skills or capital to create these on their own).
Using it as a stick = stoopid.

Hope you don't charge too much for that strategic consulting....