Pre89 Senior YSS Suspension FZR1000, Vic R1

[codgyoleracer]

Taupo A1 corner flat out here I come!!!!!!!


Hopefully Glen and the other senior bikes won't be lapping me so quickly now.

Big track next time Mr Scracha, so more corners = more opportunities for the smaller bikes????

[Shaun]

OF SUBJECT TO MY GOOD FRIEND KEVIN IN THE UK READING THIS THREAD

I KNOW THE STEARING DAMPER ISSUE< WAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU MATE!!!!!!

Shaun Harris

[codgyoleracer]

the first thing me and glen changed on the yss Suspension made 1.5 sec diffient in lap times so we new we were on a winner with yss. and it seem to have a lot finer setting than most Suspensions units.

True, in the early part of set up we made some big steps forward in lap times with shock setting changes. As times improve of course the window for adjustment becomes ever finer and more delicate !

[scracha]

Big track next time Mr Scracha, so more corners = more opportunities for the smaller bikes????

Smaller WELL RIDDEN bikes. I'm fuckin useless at the full track but it's ace fun.

[roadracingoldfart]

Big track next time Mr Scracha, so more corners = more opportunities for the smaller bikes????

True good sir ....... the sand pit is full of surprises for big bikes.

Smaller WELL RIDDEN bikes. I'm fuckin useless at the full track but it's ace fun.

You are not useless on long track , your useless on every track !!!!
As long as You dont get your muffler turned into a Kenworth Stack again by a bloody triple you will do ok , there is still a few straights to recover places Steve lol.
Anyhow , you have the best tyre in the world keeping you up man.

Paul.

[Biggles08]

Despite some of the invective from folks who don't understand RT's passion for what he does and how he does it, there's still some interesting info in what must be the most discussed ride report in KB history. Thanks to those who have provided informative/constructive input.

I only came back to NZ about 4 years ago after nearly 20 years in Oz, and coincidentally took the first steps down the road to bankruptcy by starting racing about the same time. The very first test day I went to at Manfeild I met a bloke on a virtually stock SV650. I was a noob on a well worn R1 but I can still remember thinking "Who the FUCK is that bloke?!" as he motored past again and again. Even then you could see the gears turning in this blokes head as he plotted and schemed the path to improvement for that plain jane lil' SV.

Then I saw some footage of him on a Superbike at Wanga's, and I didn't feel quite so bad. Of course it wasn't the common or garden variety GSXR, he had chosen that most challenging/frustrating of superbike tools, a Kawa-bloody-saki ZX10R.

And of course he doesn't take the easy way out by working 9-5 in someone elses business either, he backed himself from an early age and runs his own.

So apart from learning he's an approachable, hell of a nice bloke, it's also obvious Glen likes to take the path less travelled.

So it is with the YSS stuff I reckon. After seeing that "beige" SV morph into something Harris or Spondon would be proud of I've no doubt he will be relishing the challenge of doing something a lil' different. It will just be the salt on his chips I reckon.

Robert on the other hand is a pure and (not so) simple perfectionist. There is only one way to do something and that's the best way you know how. Take a look at his workshop sometime, no dusty shelves or bins full of useless, broke crap lying about, it's exactly how you'd imagine a minimalist OCD clean Swedish workshop to be: who knew Ikea had an industrial catalog?

Far from being afraid of change he can't seem to wait for the next revelation that allows him to pass on improvements and looks for ways to improve things to suit NZ conditions. Check out the race tracks and roads in Europe or the US, they are a far cry from what we see in NZ. That's not to say he will force the most expensive solution on everyone, I've personally experienced a tailored (Taylor-ed?) package for that tired R1 that suited my L-plate racer status (how little has changed....). It wasn't "Warehouse" cheap but it suited my limited ridng and financial needs perfectly. So I can see Robert finding it perversely frustrating that someone of Glens calibre would deliberately choose a worse starting point than he has to.

Different goals ya see: Robert would just like to see Glen go as fast as humanly possible on the "jello-express", whereas I get the feeling Glen doesn't just want to go fast, he thrives on the development experience as well. The challenge and therefore personal satisfaction would be considerably reduced if he just took the path of least resistance. It's that old motorcycling/life mantra: the journey is just as important as the destination.

Kerry is probably somewhere between the two. He's got a hell of an imagination and dreams up lots of ways to skin the proverbial cat.......some of them may involve an anti-gravity chamber, but I digress. For all the stories you hear (both from him and about him) he's a pretty smart cat himself and isn't afraid to try something left field. Which I guess is where the YSS gear comes in. He knows it's not WP/Ohlins/Penske but he'll be thinking that a lot of folks, rightly/or wrongly can't/won't justify that expenditure so in true entrepeneurial spirit he's trying to satisfy what he sees as a demand in the market place. Time will tell whether they get more, less or exactly what they pay for.

So, 3 different people tackling the road racing conundrum from 3 very different angles, usually at the same time and place. Interesting times.....

For myself, I haven't got an ounce of Glen's talent/experience, but I'm determined to improve after a crap last season floundering on a new bike. Unfortunately time is my biggest enemy and I can't get to the track that often. So as part of my plan I'm happy to pay good money for the premium products/services/back-up provided by CKT and their lil smurf-wagon/tardis. I see it as not just the fast track to improvement but insurance against more of the expensive mistakes I've made in the past. Someone else with different circumstances will try something different but that's what makes it all so interesting eh? What else are we gonna talk about over a few beers once we've finished discussing the lingerie Craig is wearing under his leathers this weekend?

I'm not gonna 'pologise for the waffle, I've got a gutful of axle grease masquerading as coffee and on my 21st 12 hour nightshift with 7 more to go, be thankful I didn't write even more shite........yes, there's plenty more crap where this came from..........

Bang on the money slowpoke!!! I think we can all get a bit ahead of ourselves sometimes and it pays to step back a bit and take a breath. We all race because we want to go as fast as we can but most of us know there are LOTS working against us achieving that.

I Think if we were all to do the same thing every day we wouldn't get the same progress as a community of racers. This applies to all sorts or things like, tires, bikes, brakes...hell even riding style and body positions. My point is, one shoe does not fit all and depending on your ability and budget we choose what we consider at the time to be the best choice for us.

I admire both Robert Taylor and Kerry Dukie as individuals who know a hell of a lot more than I do when it comes to suspension setup (no kidding!?!) and will listen to either of them when they have something to say about the subject. I will then make my mind up as to what fits with what I'm feeling on the bike. This brings me to my next point... As a racer, I have a big responsibility in communicating my issues to any suspension technician in a manner that they can make adjustments accordingly. I believe this is one of the BIGGEST reasons it takes so long to get a bike set up just right (some tracks more than others). While I understand there are 'basic' good settings, It becomes a little less black and white when you start making adjustments to get better performance. However, at the end of the day I WILL NEVER BLAME EITHER OF THEM IF I CRASH as this is merely cheating myself.

It is SOLELY the racers decision to push or back off according to the feedback he s getting from the bike at any time on the track. I don't buy the 'dangerous' setup thing as if you are any sort of a half decent rider you will immediately know something is not right and slow down. I would hazzard a guess that there a very few racers who would have the cheek to 100% blame the suspension guy for their crash....regardless how good or bad the setup was.

I know, I raced on 100% stock standard suspension setup on my 2007 Kawasaki ZX6R without making one single adjustment from stock settings...I raced it like that throughout the entire summer series 2008 and part way through the winter series 2009. It wasn't until I was confident enough in my riding ability and smart enough to know that the bike was in fact holding me back, did I approach Robert Taylor for help.

Robert kindly made some basic setups for me and was shaking his head in disbelief as he changed my sag, pre-load (the rear shock had none...the spring was just sitting there) and high speed comp. I went out on my bike and immediately felt a HUGE improvement on performance. This was a revelation to me and all of a sudden I could go around corners faster and I had more confidence in the bike. Robert certainly knows his stuff.

Likewise, for one reason or another I ended up using Kerry Dukie at the last round of the Nationals at Levels and found him easy to give feedback to on what I was feeling on the bike. He made some adjustments and bingo, I was immediately faster. I know he knows what he is doing too!

I would also think that YSS suspension would have a place in motorcycle racing in New Zealand and I would be sad to see them not succeed in making Glen go bloody fast on his Yamaha. I dont think (And I certainly wouldn't myself) anyone would dare suggest that just because of this, YSS is far superior to Ohlins!

Oh, for the record, I run a PENSKE in the back of my bike and it is FAR superior to any Swedish shit or Asian ripoff!

as you were..

[Robert Taylor]

Bang on the money slowpoke!!! I think we can all get a bit ahead of ourselves sometimes and it pays to step back a bit and take a breath. We all race because we want to go as fast as we can but most of us know there are LOTS working against us achieving that.

I Think if we were all to do the same thing every day we wouldn't get the same progress as a community of racers. This applies to all sorts or things like, tires, bikes, brakes...hell even riding style and body positions. My point is, one shoe does not fit all and depending on your ability and budget we choose what we consider at the time to be the best choice for us.

I admire both Robert Taylor and Kerry Dukie as individuals who know a hell of a lot more than I do when it comes to suspension setup (no kidding!?!) and will listen to either of them when they have something to say about the subject. I will then make my mind up as to what fits with what I'm feeling on the bike. This brings me to my next point... As a racer, I have a big responsibility in communicating my issues to any suspension technician in a manner that they can make adjustments accordingly. I believe this is one of the BIGGEST reasons it takes so long to get a bike set up just right (some tracks more than others). While I understand there are 'basic' good settings, It becomes a little less black and white when you start making adjustments to get better performance. However, at the end of the day I WILL NEVER BLAME EITHER OF THEM IF I CRASH as this is merely cheating myself.

It is SOLELY the racers decision to push or back off according to the feedback he s getting from the bike at any time on the track. I don't buy the 'dangerous' setup thing as if you are any sort of a half decent rider you will immediately know something is not right and slow down. I would hazzard a guess that there a very few racers who would have the cheek to 100% blame the suspension guy for their crash....regardless how good or bad the setup was.

I know, I raced on 100% stock standard suspension setup on my 2007 Kawasaki ZX6R without making one single adjustment from stock settings...I raced it like that throughout the entire summer series 2008 and part way through the winter series 2009. It wasn't until I was confident enough in my riding ability and smart enough to know that the bike was in fact holding me back, did I approach Robert Taylor for help.

Robert kindly made some basic setups for me and was shaking his head in disbelief as he changed my sag, pre-load (the rear shock had none...the spring was just sitting there) and high speed comp. I went out on my bike and immediately felt a HUGE improvement on performance. This was a revelation to me and all of a sudden I could go around corners faster and I had more confidence in the bike. Robert certainly knows his stuff.

Likewise, for one reason or another I ended up using Kerry Dukie at the last round of the Nationals at Levels and found him easy to give feedback to on what I was feeling on the bike. He made some adjustments and bingo, I was immediately faster. I know he knows what he is doing too!

I would also think that YSS suspension would have a place in motorcycle racing in New Zealand and I would be sad to see them not succeed in making Glen go bloody fast on his Yamaha. I dont think (And I certainly wouldn't myself) anyone would dare suggest that just because of this, YSS is far superior to Ohlins!

Oh, for the record, I run a PENSKE in the back of my bike and it is FAR superior to any Swedish shit or Asian ripoff!

as you were..

Good write up Biggles and some valid points, especially about newcomers struggling to understand setup, there is a LOT to take in. And the best youve ridden is the best you know.

I do though totally buy the reality of dangerous setup. We ( CKT ) do the lions share of road and road race setup in this country, especially at the sharp end. We see a lot of bikes that come through our workshop and trackside and a LOT have setups ( or lack thereof ) that are dangerous. Although it would be impossible to work out the true figures a not insignificant amount of road accidents would be because the bikes are in a dangerous condition, albeit from bad suspension or whatever. Same for the track, weve just worked on a racebike and I understand implicitly why the rider has crashed all too often. Ive been an A grade certified motorcycle engineer since 81 so believe Ive been round the traps a long time.

Love your humour re the Penske, that company does a few things really well and the response range on their high speed adjuster is very very good, as long as you understand it! This company is right at the top of the tree in Nascar and slog it out with Ohlins in Indycars. Not so strong anymore in motorcycle racing though but I have a lot of respect for their engineering.
Race Tech are also producing race shocks but they are not geared up for high volume production and consequently the pricing is very high for race level stuff, well beyond Ohlins and Penske. Its totally fair to say that in motorcycle road racing Ohlins are at the very pinnacle and their ongoing international and national success at the highest levels underscores that. With new developments on the horizon the other participants are going to get left behind, that is one of the strengths of a huge R&D component of their operation.
Relative to this thread it has been suggested by a few that my comments ( Im not afraid to speak up and be up front ) may harm my business. The odd thing is that everytime that such a thing happens my level of business goes up, go figure...

[Robert Taylor]

Bang on the money slowpoke!!! I think we can all get a bit ahead of ourselves sometimes and it pays to step back a bit and take a breath. We all race because we want to go as fast as we can but most of us know there are LOTS working against us achieving that.

I Think if we were all to do the same thing every day we wouldn't get the same progress as a community of racers. This applies to all sorts or things like, tires, bikes, brakes...hell even riding style and body positions. My point is, one shoe does not fit all and depending on your ability and budget we choose what we consider at the time to be the best choice for us.

I admire both Robert Taylor and Kerry Dukie as individuals who know a hell of a lot more than I do when it comes to suspension setup (no kidding!?!) and will listen to either of them when they have something to say about the subject. I will then make my mind up as to what fits with what I'm feeling on the bike. This brings me to my next point... As a racer, I have a big responsibility in communicating my issues to any suspension technician in a manner that they can make adjustments accordingly. I believe this is one of the BIGGEST reasons it takes so long to get a bike set up just right (some tracks more than others). While I understand there are 'basic' good settings, It becomes a little less black and white when you start making adjustments to get better performance. However, at the end of the day I WILL NEVER BLAME EITHER OF THEM IF I CRASH as this is merely cheating myself.

It is SOLELY the racers decision to push or back off according to the feedback he s getting from the bike at any time on the track. I don't buy the 'dangerous' setup thing as if you are any sort of a half decent rider you will immediately know something is not right and slow down. I would hazzard a guess that there a very few racers who would have the cheek to 100% blame the suspension guy for their crash....regardless how good or bad the setup was.

I know, I raced on 100% stock standard suspension setup on my 2007 Kawasaki ZX6R without making one single adjustment from stock settings...I raced it like that throughout the entire summer series 2008 and part way through the winter series 2009. It wasn't until I was confident enough in my riding ability and smart enough to know that the bike was in fact holding me back, did I approach Robert Taylor for help.

Robert kindly made some basic setups for me and was shaking his head in disbelief as he changed my sag, pre-load (the rear shock had none...the spring was just sitting there) and high speed comp. I went out on my bike and immediately felt a HUGE improvement on performance. This was a revelation to me and all of a sudden I could go around corners faster and I had more confidence in the bike. Robert certainly knows his stuff.

Likewise, for one reason or another I ended up using Kerry Dukie at the last round of the Nationals at Levels and found him easy to give feedback to on what I was feeling on the bike. He made some adjustments and bingo, I was immediately faster. I know he knows what he is doing too!

I would also think that YSS suspension would have a place in motorcycle racing in New Zealand and I would be sad to see them not succeed in making Glen go bloody fast on his Yamaha. I dont think (And I certainly wouldn't myself) anyone would dare suggest that just because of this, YSS is far superior to Ohlins!

Oh, for the record, I run a PENSKE in the back of my bike and it is FAR superior to any Swedish shit or Asian ripoff!

as you were..

Another point relative to suspension setup, you mention about the feedback that the rider is getting from the bike. What if he is getting no feedback or feel and therefore cannot feel the limit? That is one of the biggest complaints that is heard in the race paddock, ''no feel''. ''I that why you crashed?, yes''.

That is another part that an experienced suspension engineer has to build into the bike, its importatant to have good feel at both ends, especially the front end. During the winter series last year we introduced Ohlins NIX25 system into Glen Skatchills winter series winning GSXR600. His very first comment was ''amazing feel and feedback''. And contrary to some misbeliefs feel and feedback is not about the suspension being stiff, it can be compliant and also have feel. The reality is that no-one builds a better set of cartridges than Ohlins. That may sound like blatant Ohlins speak but we work on everything.

[Pussy]

But can you fly an F-4, Robert??

No you can't!... and Dukie has personally told me, in all seriousness, that HE has, on covert missions in Afghanistan for the USAF...

Suck on dat!!

[KS34]

Are we going to be seeing Mills & Boon sponsorship on the bike this season Spud?

That was beautiful...snif....snif

[scracha]

But can you fly an F-4, Robert??

No you can't!... and Dukie has personally told me, in all seriousness, that HE has, on covert missions in Afghanistan for the USAF...

Suck on dat!!

I suppose he was escorting the Vulcan bomber. No wonder they missed Osama.

[Robert Taylor]

Are we going to be seeing Mills & Boon sponsorship on the bike this season Spud?

That was beautiful...snif....snif

Spud is very entertaining yes, and very likeable.

[schrodingers cat]

Relative to this thread it has been suggested by a few that my comments ( Im not afraid to speak up and be up front ) may harm my business. The odd thing is that everytime that such a thing happens my level of business goes up, go figure...

So finally you admit that you're hijacking Glen's race report to tout for business!

Sales Training 101

You may not realise, but you passion comes across as as a form of 'negative sales' (i.e. theirs is shit, you should buy mine)
In sales, you should NEVER name the oppositions product. Talk about the positives of your product - which you have done to the point of broken record - and let the customer decide. The customer has free will
If the customer asks about oppostion product then it is OK to comment on your perception of its weaknesses/drawbacks and reinforce the strenghts of your products/ \services.

Robert, surely you don't NEED to be wasting your time in this post. You are polarising opinion.
Why not do something positive and devote your time to writing some technical articles?
As you rightly say, there are sooooooo many variables that, for a dabbler, all the knowledge without the experience leads to a big ball of tangled string.
By sharing your knowledge you will reinforce the idea in peoples minds of the where to go for good advise.

PS Kerry - RT doesn't strike me as a big listener - maybe gasump him here!

I accept that this post is in the Racing thread but people like myself who don't race have different motivations. I like to tamper. I want to learn for myself. It would be more cost effective for me to pay someone to sort things out for me (other than over capitalising my bike) but my satisfation would be reduced.

On the track, a magic set of XYZ - or O suspension would improve my lap time but it wouldn't suddenly make me a better rider. On the road, I ride so far within the capibilities of the bike that I don't need the ducks nuts gear. Hence my interest in alternatives in the first place

[Robert Taylor]

So finally you admit that you hijacking Glen's race report to tout for business!

Sale Training 101

You may not realise but you passion comes across as as a form of 'negative sales' (i.e. theirs is shit, you should buy mine)
In sales, you should NEVER name the oppositions product. Talk about the positives of your product - which you have done to the point of broken record - and let the customer decide. The customer has free will
If the customer asks about oppostion product then it is OK to comment on your perception of its weaknesses/drawbacks and reinforce the strenghts of your product services.

Robert, surely you don't NEED to be wasting your time in this post. You are polarising opinion.
Why not do something positive and devote your time to writing some technical articles?
As you rightly say, there are sooooooo many variables that, for a dabbler, all the knowledge without the experience leads to a big ball of tangled string.
By sharing your knowledge you will reinforce the idea in peoples minds of the where to go for good advise.

PS Kerry - RT doesn't strike me as a big listener - maybe gasump him here!

I accept that this post is in the Racing thread but people like myself who don't race have different motivations. I like to tamper. I want to learn for myself. It would be more cost effective for me to pay someone to sort things out for me (other than over capitalising my bike) but my satisfation would be reduced.

On the track, a magic set of XYZ - or O suspension would improve my lap time but it wouldn't suddenly make me a better rider. On the road, I ride so far within the capibilities of the bike that I don't need the ducks nuts gear. Hence my interest in alternatives in the first place

NOT AT ALL, I was stating effectively that it was a by product.

Notably Kiwibiker is polarised anyway and its also notable that the negative comments always circulate between a relatively small bunch of people.

And yeah why dont I write MORE technical articles? Kiwibiker is but one form of media and is not the be all and end all of motorcycling, its not the centre of the motorcycling universe. Check out back issues of BRM magazine and before that Kiwirider magazines. Evidence initiatives where we have had a leading overseas motorcycle road race suspension engineers here to run training schools for those interested enough to attend. PROACTIVE INVOLVEMENT 101

Arguably I have shared a LOT of knowledge over the years, much moreso than anyone else in the game.

Note also that Ive mentioned three names aside from Ohlins and also said that they are all very good products. Every product has its level that it finds itself at in the market and its level of performance, backup and otherwise.

Excellent suspension that is optimised for you gives you a better ride and more confidence as a rider, irrespective of whether you race or cruise on the road. Most of our customers are road cruisers, as a listener I listen to their needs and set the suspension up accordingly within their budgets, plain and simple.

Im not a big listener to BS, thats reasonable

[codgyoleracer]

[QUOTE=roadracingoldfart;1129771745]True good sir ....... the sand pit is full of surprises for big bikes.

Hey , dont try n Associate me with that Sherriff of Fielding fella, he's the one that has a stronghold on sandpits...........