Pre89 Senior YSS Suspension FZR1000, Vic R1

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=codgyoleracer;1129772426]

True good sir ....... the sand pit is full of surprises for big bikes.

Hey , dont try n Associate me with that Sherriff of Fielding fella, he's the one that has a stronghold on sandpits...........

Carries a little spade around with himself also

[Biggles08]

[QUOTE=Shaun;1129772438]

Carries a little spade around with himself also

But at least he has fun out there...just look at the picture in BRM for any proof...he loves playing in the sandpit!

[Kickaha]

But can you fly an F-4, Robert??

No you can't!... and Dukie has personally told me, in all seriousness, that HE has, on covert missions in Afghanistan for the USAF...

Suck on dat!!

You could take him in the Fletcher

[SWERVE]

Or the pre 19 Sopwith Camel ....... with the BPF/Electronic landing gear........ Robert " The Red Baron" Taylor......................... you guys!

[Pussy]

Robert may not be an accomplished pilot.... but he does have aviation experience....he revalved these for me!

[coreys]

I find it interesting that there is alot of stuff spoken about KD by RT and his cronies. I find it even more interesting that KD never responds to the abuse and inuendo.
I have no doubt that RT is an exceptional suspension engineer. I have even heard KD state this very thing first hand.
I think that there is one party acting with dignity and integrity in all of this and one party who has none.
i will leave it up to the reader to decide which shoe fits which foot.

[Robert Taylor]

Suffice to say that there is a measure of dignity to voicing concerns ( and they are real concerns) and there being precious little dignity in other activities that have been going on behind the scenes. Those who actually know me will understand my concerns.

[SS90]

I am looking at this argument through experienced eyes, and as I see it, the only thing Robert is taking exception to is the claims that YSS are "just as good" as Öhlins.

I see it as fair for him to question that, as, we all know that Öhlins are a top shelf item, and as such, use only the best materials etc.

There seem to be a few punters that are happy with their YSS suspension, more power to them, but there are times that a distributor has to stand up for himself (and his staff) and affirm the quality of his product.

Humans are a fickle beast, and while several of the contributors to this thread see themselves as "too smart to be caught up in advertising", by our nature (most) of us are lead by "word of mouth", and, all it takes is for several people to say " oh yea YXZ are just as good as ÖÜÄ's", and that can have a detrimental effect on ÖÜÄ's business, simply through "chinese whispers". (pun intended)

Worst case scenario, people buy XYZ brand, have problems (be it the part or back up, or whatever), then, because "Jimmy down at the Ferrit's nipple told me that they where just as good as ÖÜÄ, so therefore both XYZ AND ÖÜÄ are rubbish, and I need to buy something else"

That may sound silly, but that is what brand marketing has done to the industry.

And, for the record, more power to W Whites (I think they are the importer) ,and their service agents, I hope they succeed with gaining a market share in NZ, I really do, because if they are as good as (a few) people claim, then it will push everyone at CKT really hard to offer an even better service, and, if everyone plays fair, the customer will be the winner.

I know of a company over here that had YSS make suspension units to order (that is why YSS have Tüv certification by the way), and they, sadly, were shit, a few even didn't even have enough oil in the body, making for interesting damping rates.

I may be wrong here, but I seem to remember some "asian" emulators appearing on the market (that where complete cack), and, simply a copy of an established brand.....
Perhaps they have a different assembly plant/parts supplier for the NZ market, that may well be true, because from what I see in NZ, they are not that much cheaper than "The swedish brand" Because, in Europe, they (YSS) are quite cheap.

[PeeJay]

claims that YSS are "just as good" as Öhlins.

Any references to this?

This is what I think this is all about
Robert enjoys a well deserved position in NZ motorcycling as the suspension guru.
Unfortunately he see's himself as the only port of call for all things suspension.
He sees Glen's use of YSS as a direct challenge to his authority on all things suspension.
The rot has set in so to speak and it has to be nipped in the bud before it spreads.
His biggest fear is that Glen will do well and someone else will try YSS.
Hence the continuous attacks on YSS, their service agent, their quality, the likelihood of serious injury if you use them etc etc etc.

Its a personal affront that someone is not listening to him, or rather listens and then does something other than what he recommends.

I have no doubt that when Glen decided to do something with the suspension he looked at all the available options, including Ohlins, and then made HIS decision.
I dont think Robert has a problem with people looking at options, what he does have a problem with is someone picking something else over Ohlins.
Next thing you know everyone will be doing it.
Kind of like the Emperors new clothes.

[SS90]

Any references to this?

So you assert that YSS is NOT as good as Öhlins?

I have not seen any personal attacks written by Robert against any person associated with YSS, rather I hear others make comments regarding certain peoples credibility...... (what's this F16 bullshit, it makes this guy sound like a fruit loop)

I will agree though that when a "new roster" starts crowing, the old rooster gives his all, but, hey what's the harm in that?

Ironically, I am always in favour of new products on the market, as well as a champion of the underdog.

Part of me gets the feeling that alot of this current wave of sillyness is propagated by the public, rather than the traders themselves.

One thing can be sure, when the dust settles, there will be another suspension option on the market, and the customers will chose which is the best.

I just hope that, to keep prices low, SERVICE does not suffer.

[coreys]

Suffice to say that there is a measure of dignity to voicing concerns ( and they are real concerns) and there being precious little dignity in other activities that have been going on behind the scenes. Those who actually know me will understand my concerns.

I think readers on this bog understand your MOTIVATIONS very well

[Robert Taylor]

I think readers on this bog understand your MOTIVATIONS very well

Indeed, to carry on what I have been doing for years, to provide a top level of service and to help people set up their bikes, all at reasonable cost.

[Robert Taylor]

Given the nature of this thread its a relevant subject to list what riders should look for when selecting suspension ( any brand of suspension ) and the questions they should be asking. The following is all pretty ad lib, probably doesnt list all possible questions and is in no particular order:

1) If you are not a racer and you just want a very inexpensive replacement shock for your road bike what are the limitations of the cheaper shocks? Ok, they will have a range of about 5 to 6 generic damping curves so there is no individualistion to each specific model aside from the fitting criteria. In the case of budget twin shocks there is a tendency to build them the same way as single acting budget passenger car shocks. I.e little or no low speed compression damping, instead an enormous amount of preload on the springs ( often can be as much as 40mm ) to provide a low cost means of ride height control. As there is so much preload the rebound damping has to be pretty aggressive and happily that can be arranged with an orifice damping curve, little more sophisticated than a checkplate and small ports.
Performance will be okay but not stunning, especially on our high ratio of bumpy roads.
No pretence, built to a price and that is what you get

Higher priced shocks:

2) What level of service will I get? If it is shipped to me with a spring rate that turns out to be incorrect will the seller replace it at no further cost? Even though it may have taken several weeks for me to ascertain that the spring rate is not quite right?

3) What if the internal valving calibration ( controlling damping ) proves to be not so good on our bumpy roads or it doesnt give the control and grip I require on track? What will the seller do to sort it out and will there be a cost involved?

4) How well trained are the technicians? Have they attended training schools at the manufacturer ( overseas ) so they have knowledge specific to the product? How ongoing is this?

5) What is the spare parts backup like? If my springing is incorrect do they hold a suitable number of the faster moving options so that Im not unduly inconvenienced?

6) If Im at a racetrack and the suspension needs work, is the technician receptive to my needs? Will he have the capacity and time to help or is he too busy helping the top riders? Does he have extra fully factory trained and capable technicians on hand to help?

7) What is the pedigree of the suspension Im looking at? What international success have they had at the higher and highest levels of motorcycle racing? Are they at the forefront of technology forever pushing the boundaries or is end price an over-riding factor?

8) What makes the suspension stand out?

Price?

Function?

Ease of setting change?

Are the technicians on hand very obliging to make those setting changes?

Setting parts and springs on hand trackside?

9) How long is the suspension warrantied for against manufacturing defect? If there is a defect is there going to be a battle or will it be handled with minimal fuss?

I think all of the above ( and I will have miseed afew points ) are very fair questions to ask any suspension supplier.

[Robert Taylor]

Any references to this?

This is what I think this is all about
Robert enjoys a well deserved position in NZ motorcycling as the suspension guru.
Unfortunately he see's himself as the only port of call for all things suspension.
He sees Glen's use of YSS as a direct challenge to his authority on all things suspension.
The rot has set in so to speak and it has to be nipped in the bud before it spreads.
His biggest fear is that Glen will do well and someone else will try YSS.
Hence the continuous attacks on YSS, their service agent, their quality, the likelihood of serious injury if you use them etc etc etc.

Its a personal affront that someone is not listening to him, or rather listens and then does something other than what he recommends.

I have no doubt that when Glen decided to do something with the suspension he looked at all the available options, including Ohlins, and then made HIS decision.
I dont think Robert has a problem with people looking at options, what he does have a problem with is someone picking something else over Ohlins.
Next thing you know everyone will be doing it.
Kind of like the Emperors new clothes.

PORTS OF CALL FOR ALL THINGS SUSPENSION:

Ray Clee WP importer, top guy, excellent engineer. Plays the game straight, sells a very high quality brand and I talk too him freely and openly quite often. I trust him

Mark Patterson, the NZ specialist for WP MX suspension, especially. If Im working on a WP shock and need to clarify something I ring Mark. If Im too busy and cant do the job I recommend Mark, everytime.

Norm Cobb, Suspension Tech. If someone in Auckland has suspension issues and cannot bring it to us I can implicitly trust Norm to sort it out.

Jason at Levin Motorcycles. Again a total level of trust. Especially good with racing ATVs that I have very little experience with. Ill often send customers there, if Ohlins dont have a listing specific to the ATV they will sell the guy Fox or Elka. Either way I know they are in very good hands.

Blair Selfe at Oamaru Motorcycles, just like Jason a guy I can trust implicitly. Doesnt sell a huge number of shocks nor do I put any pressure on him to do so.

Peter Fenton in ChCh, trust built up through racing and looking after primarily road customers in that area.

Shaun Harris, trusted subcontractor who can work out whats wrong with a bike and develop it. Had rather more than a lot to do with developing the worlds first shock for the first incarnation of GSXR1000 and more latterly worlds first for TTX36.

Chris Osbourne, a really clever race engineer and another guy I can implicitly trust.

Don Oconnor at Eurobike, if an Ohlins shock is well out of the price range and the customer just wants a cheap replacement Ill reccommend that they purchase a Hagon from their local dealer, distributed by Eurobike.

Customers that often ask me to build Speedway shocks...''sorry I dont understand the finest points of speedway setup and could only do so if I was fully involved, which I cannot be''


It never pays to assume, you think you know me but you dont know me at all.

[schrodingers cat]

Two excellent, constructive posts Robert.
More deserving of a new thread I would have thought - might get lost in here

I withdraw, and stand corrected, re the 'listener' comment