Pre89 Senior YSS Suspension FZR1000, Vic R1

[codgyoleracer]

[PART QUOTE=Robert Taylor;
With respect to Post Classic its now possible to build TTX36 with a hose reservoir and of course internal top out spring. In a bike such as Glens that would result in a lap time as much as 1.5 seconds per lap faster than what it is currently doing ( maybe more ), once fully optimised. Any comparisons have to be fully apples for apples, same rider, same bike, same tyres in same condition, same track and conditions. Just change the suspenders.
Id be happy to build one for Glenn to test but I guess he has rather boxed himself into an arrangement.[/QUOTE]

No need to run a resevoir Rob , you can supply a standard TTX unit into Posties, rear shock is "open" to any choice. I just chose the YSS remote resevoir as a custom option for mine so that its appearance is "along the lines of what was fitted to the original bike in the era". I like the idea in posties thatthe bikes should look somewhat like they did " back in the day" aye.
And no , i am certainly not "in a box" as you say, I am free to spend my hard earned dosh wherever i like , and i do like to do something a bit different sometimes as It tends to create interest, exposure and the development of new ideas. It seems from this thread that , that is exactly whats happend ! (at least in the world famous in NZ Kiwibiker............. :-) ), see ya this weekend - I expect at least one non-pc joke from you :-)
Cheers

[Robert Taylor]

Reading your last post regarding the manufacturing of twin shocks.
Why dont the the lower end manufacturers make big bore shocks like Ohlins Wp penske?
Its not a manufacturing/production problem
Its not a problem with basic design
The Asian manufacturers arent stupid
So what is stopping them ?
Is it a licensing/patent issue?
I imagine YSS would be sensitive to patent issues as they seem to be wanting to be a mainstream and worldwide business.
But others may not be so worried about patent violations

I seriously doubt you can patent a size and in any event there are always plenty of ways of circumventing patents. Most of it will be plain economics and the reasons will be varied.

For example;

1) It may be that its far more economical to produce twin shock springs in a certain ( relatively small ) internal diameter, because the spring manufacturers are geared up for that base diameter and supply in that to a number of other shock manufacturers including oem suppliers. Economy of scale. If the ''ideal'' size is irregular / uncommon and the numbers are relatively low then the unit cost goes up quite dramatically. Smaller id springs dictate smaller id body tubes.

2) Maybe similarly so with body tube for all the same reasons as above.

3) In fairness there are a number of earlier model bikes ( and some commuter bikes ) that cannot accept big bore shocks. So again economy of scale, better performance and consistency of performance exists with bigger bore shocks but if you are making them for a smaller number of models ( as WP, Penske and Ohlins do ) then the price goes up.

4) Overall less raw material costs. The Asians more than any other race of manufacturers are masters at making everything as minimalist as possible, over a wide variety of day to day goods. Minimalist is a broad term and I make comparison of humble floating gas pistons, minimalist machining processes that would otherwise reduce weight as much as possible. Bladder shocks, cheaper to manufacture than a floating gas piston shock because you dont have to have a highly accurate micro finished bore for the gas piston to glide in. Much more frequent servicing required in gas bladder shocks due to the migration of gas through the bladder into the oil exacerbated by inevitable pressure imbalance fluctuations that occur during shock function. Steel piston and rebound holder bosses instead of lightweight ( and therefore more responsive ) anodised high spec aluminium alloy, typically 7075T6. Etc.

5) Remember that given all of the above budget and mid price manufacturers are more willing to accept performance, quality and longevity compromises because end price is the over-riding preoccupation. In that light that is also why the laboratory, road and track testing is nowhere near to the level of the top three manufacturers, because it reflects in the end price of the shock!

Finally add some slick catch phrases from the marketing men and you are in business! Im not saying that there is anything inherently wrong with the mentality of budget and mid price manufacturers, but like any marketing and race results you have to read between the lines. Its dangerous to take everything at face value.

[Robert Taylor]

[PART QUOTE=Robert Taylor;
With respect to Post Classic its now possible to build TTX36 with a hose reservoir and of course internal top out spring. In a bike such as Glens that would result in a lap time as much as 1.5 seconds per lap faster than what it is currently doing ( maybe more ), once fully optimised. Any comparisons have to be fully apples for apples, same rider, same bike, same tyres in same condition, same track and conditions. Just change the suspenders.
Id be happy to build one for Glenn to test but I guess he has rather boxed himself into an arrangement.

No need to run a resevoir Rob , you can supply a standard TTX unit into Posties, rear shock is "open" to any choice. I just chose the YSS remote resevoir as a custom option for mine so that its appearance is "along the lines of what was fitted to the original bike in the era". I like the idea in posties thatthe bikes should look somewhat like they did " back in the day" aye.
And no , i am certainly not "in a box" as you say, I am free to spend my hard earned dosh wherever i like , and i do like to do something a bit different sometimes as It tends to create interest, exposure and the development of new ideas. It seems from this thread that , that is exactly whats happend ! (at least in the world famous in NZ Kiwibiker............. :-) ), see ya this weekend - I expect at least one non-pc joke from you :-)
Cheers[/QUOTE]

The TTX36 with hose gives more flexibility of installation, especially in models that are too tight to accept a piggyback type. Also Im being mindful like you in preserving the period look, at least in that respect. If anything too radical is introduced into Post Classic then heaven forbid!!
In the realm of new ideas Ohlins are inarguably light years ahead as ( frankly ) there is nothing new in any of the budget and mid price stuff.
Yes non PC jokes no problem

[gixerracer]

Now I guess your going to tell us that if codgy had a ohlins he would have been winning F1 and beating sloan 2.?

No need to run a resevoir Rob , you can supply a standard TTX unit into Posties, rear shock is "open" to any choice. I just chose the YSS remote resevoir as a custom option for mine so that its appearance is "along the lines of what was fitted to the original bike in the era". I like the idea in posties thatthe bikes should look somewhat like they did " back in the day" aye.
And no , i am certainly not "in a box" as you say, I am free to spend my hard earned dosh wherever i like , and i do like to do something a bit different sometimes as It tends to create interest, exposure and the development of new ideas. It seems from this thread that , that is exactly whats happend ! (at least in the world famous in NZ Kiwibiker............. :-) ), see ya this weekend - I expect at least one non-pc joke from you :-)
Cheers

The TTX36 with hose gives more flexibility of installation, especially in models that are too tight to accept a piggyback type. Also Im being mindful like you in preserving the period look, at least in that respect. If anything too radical is introduced into Post Classic then heaven forbid!!
In the realm of new ideas Ohlins are inarguably light years ahead as ( frankly ) there is nothing new in any of the budget and mid price stuff.
Yes non PC jokes no problem[/QUOTE]

[coreys]

"In a bike such as Glens that would result in a lap time as much as 1.5 seconds per lap faster than what it is currently doing ( maybe more ), once fully optimised. "

Well then Rob, why dont you put one on a bike like Glen's and run it against him, im sure that your bike would win by the length of the straight.

"Ok put it this way, go for a ride with what has been fitted then go for a ride with the product we distribute, I know only too damn well which ones youll prefer. "

I disagree, because with the money i save, i can afford better brakes and probably a power commander as well. What you should be discussing is bang for your buck. Even people (like me) that give you a hard time will acknowledge that Ohlins are world leaders in suspension. That isnt in question, nor are your abilties.

But not everyone has 4-6K to spend on top end Ohlins kit (front and rear, plus set up and fitting). As you rightly point out YSS will deliver a superior ride then the OEM equipment. For some this is enough. Unfortunetly you come across as a tosser everytime you critisise people for daring to spend money that you havent clipped the ticket on.

[Robert Taylor]

"In a bike such as Glens that would result in a lap time as much as 1.5 seconds per lap faster than what it is currently doing ( maybe more ), once fully optimised. "

Well then Rob, why dont you put one on a bike like Glen's and run it against him, im sure that your bike would win by the length of the straight.

"Ok put it this way, go for a ride with what has been fitted then go for a ride with the product we distribute, I know only too damn well which ones youll prefer. "

I disagree, because with the money i save, i can afford better brakes and probably a power commander as well. What you should be discussing is bang for your buck. Even people (like me) that give you a hard time will acknowledge that Ohlins are world leaders in suspension. That isnt in question, nor are your abilties.

But not everyone has 4-6K to spend on top end Ohlins kit (front and rear, plus set up and fitting). As you rightly point out YSS will deliver a superior ride then the OEM equipment. For some this is enough. Unfortunetly you come across as a tosser everytime you critisise people for daring to spend money that you havent clipped the ticket on.

Where did you pluck 4 to 6k from? Its easy to assume and then base your argument on how out of whack the assumption is. We have new prices from Sweden that are significantly better and in real terms not that much greater than mid price products.

[Robert Taylor]

Now I guess your going to tell us that if codgy had a ohlins he would have been winning F1 and beating sloan 2.?

The TTX36 with hose gives more flexibility of installation, especially in models that are too tight to accept a piggyback type. Also Im being mindful like you in preserving the period look, at least in that respect. If anything too radical is introduced into Post Classic then heaven forbid!!
In the realm of new ideas Ohlins are inarguably light years ahead as ( frankly ) there is nothing new in any of the budget and mid price stuff.
Yes non PC jokes no problem

[/QUOTE]

Te he he he, youre a stirring sod Craig, lucky I know your sense of humour. Sloan is as you realise by no means pushing it to the edge.

I did see the pain on a leading Aprilia riders face as he was bailed up by some guy with verbal diarrohea, apparently he was being told that Ohlins TTX shocks are s..t! Best we get the same guy to get a message to Max Biaggi and Leon Camier to tell the error of their ways!

[gixerracer]

Funny you mention that as I got told the same story along with many many moreTe he he he, youre a stirring sod Craig, lucky I know your sense of humour. Sloan is as you realise by no means pushing it to the edge.

I did see the pain on a leading Aprilia riders face as he was bailed up by some guy with verbal diarrohea, apparently he was being told that Ohlins TTX shocks are s..t! Best we get the same guy to get a message to Max Biaggi and Leon Camier to tell the error of their ways![/QUOTE]

[Ivan]

Funny you mention that as I got told the same story along with many many more

Te he he he, youre a stirring sod Craig, lucky I know your sense of humour. Sloan is as you realise by no means pushing it to the edge.

I did see the pain on a leading Aprilia riders face as he was bailed up by some guy with verbal diarrohea, apparently he was being told that Ohlins TTX shocks are s..t! Best we get the same guy to get a message to Max Biaggi and Leon Camier to tell the error of their ways!

[/QUOTE]

did you even post anything then cause that's the same as Robert's post

[gixerracer]

Think you need to learn to read man did you even post anything then cause that's the same as Robert's post[/QUOTE]

[GSVR]

Great too see the YSS1000 circulating with some very modern machinery in F1 on Saturday. Highlight of the days racing for me. Pity the old girl decided to fall to bits on you with a couple of laps to go.

Perhaps you could sell Robert your intellectual property rights to the information you have on how set up post classics (or does that belong to the Duke?)

[Tony.OK]

Think you need to learn to read man

did you even post anything then cause that's the same as Robert's post

As long as ya can suss out that Motec pc on the Honda we'll excuse you for bein so messy with yer posts

[roadracingoldfart]

As long as ya can suss out that Motec pc on the Honda we'll excuse you for bein so messy with yer posts

Ahhh , them factory backed dudes have a "man "to sort the Motec's Tony.

[gixerracer]

You no it lol

Ahhh , them factory backed dudes have a "man "to sort the Motec's Tony.

[Robert Taylor]

Great too see the YSS1000 circulating with some very modern machinery in F1 on Saturday. Highlight of the days racing for me. Pity the old girl decided to fall to bits on you with a couple of laps to go.

Perhaps you could sell Robert your intellectual property rights to the information you have on how set up post classics (or does that belong to the Duke?)

REALITY CHECK,

Nothing can be taken away from Glens performance as he is a top National rider with a bike that is obviously developing good horsepower with good tyres and he is prepared to hang it out. Did you fit the FZ750 6 speed box as I suggested Glen? Also nothing can be taken away from emerging talent that has intermittently raced in the F1 class, Darren Humphries and Jamie Rajek, both of whom have lifted their game substanially. Add a newcomer on an Aprilia who once he slows down will go faster. Choppa is also riding at only 8 tenths if that, he doesnt need to and there is only so much base setup you can do on wet winter tracks with little temperature and grip. Preoccupation is getting time on the bike for the Nats and when there is some track temperature the real testing starts.
The fields are very thin and lack the National level guns i.e Craig, Hayden, Stroudy, Skatchill etc.