Peter Bethune's trial starts Thursday 27 May

[shrub]

Your comments in the original post I quoted were that people should respect people that are willing so much to fight for what they believe in. I was not calling PB a Muslium - but was pointing out that 'other people' that believe so stongly on 'other issues' you done affort the same respect for believing in their actions - yet you expect others to have that respect simply because it is something you agree with.

As for PB not being a terrorist - meh - that depends on your point of view. He is a member of the SS - that has been linked to eco terrorism by several countries.

Sadly for people with simplistic worldviews like yours, life is not a binary. Supporting Peter Bethune does not mean I support everyone who is willing to take risks for their cause, and what countries have decided the SS are terrorists?

[Mully]

Pete Bethune's vessel was rammed by a Japanese whaling ship and went on board said ship to protest and make a citizens arrest (an ill-considered course of action in my opinion, but a brave action nonetheless). .

Point of order: I've read a report that says laying blame for the "incident" is near impossible from the film footage supplied (something to do with overtaking angles and such) - that being said, the fact that the Japanese failed to render assistance to a stricken vessel is in contravention of maritime law. Of course, had people been throwing acid at me, I'm not convinced I'd render assistance either.

You are, of course, forgetting the most hilarious part of Bethune's boarding of the whaling ship - the fact that he presented an invoice to the Japanese for his sunken do-dad. To my mind, that's significantly funnier than trying a citizen's arrest.

BTW, are the whales Japan are hunting (for "science", obviously) still classed as endangered? I seem to recall reading something to the contrary (which may, of course, have been written by the Japanese)

[shrub]

No, there is no debate, he is a confirmed terrorist, the SIS have files detailing his escapades, spanning 3 decades.

Oh, then that settles it. If the SIS have files on him, then he must be a terrorist. Hang on, they have files on John Key - does that mean he's a terrorist?

Muppets, too funny!!!

[imdying]

They're not obliged to render assistance to pirates who're attacking them

[imdying]

Oh, then that settles it. If the SIS have files on him, then he must be a terrorist. Hang on, they have files on John Key - does that mean he's a terrorist?

Yes, they hold files on him for the same reasons Maybe you should get a look at those files

[shrub]

Point of order: I've read a report that says laying blame for the "incident" is near impossible from the film footage supplied (something to do with overtaking angles and such) - that being said, the fact that the Japanese failed to render assistance to a stricken vessel is in contravention of maritime law. Of course, had people been throwing acid at me, I'm not convinced I'd render assistance either.

You are, of course, forgetting the most hilarious part of Bethune's boarding of the whaling ship - the fact that he presented an invoice to the Japanese for his sunken do-dad. To my mind, that's significantly funnier than trying a citizen's arrest.

BTW, are the whales Japan are hunting (for "science", obviously) still classed as endangered? I seem to recall reading something to the contrary (which may, of course, have been written by the Japanese)

The Japanese have refused to provide film footage and it's generally believed that their footage would show intention on their part. The whales concerned may or may not be endangered, what is of importance is that the area they are being hunted in is a whale sanctuary. Kind of like going lion hunting in a game park.

[oldrider]

This trial is about Peter Bethune and his criminal behaviour, not about his beliefs!

I for one am not in total disagreement with his beliefs but I do not agree at all with his behaviour!

IMHO he simply got the two confused and Japanese "justice" is helping him get it sorted.

[Tank]

Sadly for people with simplistic worldviews like yours, life is not a binary. Supporting Peter Bethune does not mean I support everyone who is willing to take risks for their cause, and what countries have decided the SS are terrorists?

No - what I was pointing out is your hypocrisy:

You expect people to have respect for PB for taking a stand for what he believes in - but only because you agree with him.

You dont respect people who take a stand for what they believe in if you dont agree with them.

You believe that everyone should agree with you and if they dont you insult them and say that they are wrong.

Its that typical small minded, self centered, holier than tho attitude that makes hating greenies so easy - because you are all smug idiots that dont understand the harm you are doing for a good cause.

[Tank]

and it's generally believed

So its generally believed - despite people not actually seeing it.

Generally believed by whom - personally I think that they are saving it to put on Japans funniest home videos.

Or perhaps they just cant be fucked having anything to do with the SS and thought 'fuck em' - and who can blame them.

But dont let that stop you making unsubstantiated wild assed claims to try and backup your argument.

[shrub]

No - what I was pointing out is your hypocrisy:

You expect people to have respect for PB for taking a stand for what he believes in - but only because you agree with him.

You dont respect people who take a stand for what they believe in if you dont agree with them.

You believe that everyone should agree with you and if they dont you insult them and say that they are wrong.

Its that typical small minded, self centered, holier than tho attitude that makes hating greenies so easy - because you are all smug idiots that dont understand the harm you are doing for a good cause.

So what you're saying is that because religious extremists are willing to make sacrifices for what they believe in, nobody else should do the same? That their actions mean we should all bend over and take our medicine?

Get real man, there is nothing hypocritical about me admiring Peter Bethune for having the courage to stand up against a bully who is engaging in probably illegal behaviour and denouncing the actions of religious extremists. There is a huge difference between what he did and the actions of a suicide bomber.

[Tank]

and one other thing for the greenies.

PB has admitted almost all of the charges.

So - if hes charged in a court of law, and he admits doing it - how thy fuck can he be the wronged person.

Now for some accountability - thats what happens to the guilty.

And remember - that the japs have not been found guilty of anything. Apart from the court of 'generally believed'

[shrub]

and one other thing for the greenies.

PB has admitted almost all of the charges.'

In other words, he's an honest man who is willing to take responsibility for his actions and not hide. You must hate that about him.

[Tank]

So what you're saying is that because religious extremists are willing to make sacrifices for what they believe in, nobody else should do the same? That their actions mean we should all bend over and take our medicine?

actually I believe that all should be entitled to their views but still act within the law. You are the one saying that we should respect a man breaking it.

Get real man, there is nothing hypocritical about me admiring Peter Bethune for having the courage to stand up against a bully who is engaging in probably illegal behaviour and denouncing the actions of religious extremists. There is a huge difference between what he did and the actions of a suicide bomber.

1 - as you say probably engaged - but no proof of it.
2 - you forget that the SS have indeed bombed people - by placing a mine on a boat in port (ala rainbow warrior) - its just good luck that nobody was killed. But thats OK huh?

[Tank]

In other words, he's an honest man who is willing to take responsibility for his actions and not hide. You must hate that about him.

Id have more respect if he admitted all of them as opposed to just the 'smaller ones' hoping for a smaller sentence on the bigger one. Still its a start. Hope he gets a few years for the small ones as well.

[Tank]

oh his lawyer today:

"Mr Harris said he was confident that the charge of assault would not be taken seriously by the court, as nobody was badly injured and the bottle had not been aimed at anyone."

So he did do it - it was just bad luck that someone was hit - I wasnt aiming at him specifically. Yeah - thats a great defense.


edit - Mr Harris may be in for a shock.