Peter Bethune's trial starts Thursday 27 May

[shrub]

This was the opening question of the OP of this thread......so how did it pan out?....."Slap on the the wrist".....thread closed!

The Japs didn't want too close a scrutiny from the international community so were keen to see him go away. Why didn't they want close international scrutiny? Because not everyone believes their propaganda. Slap his wrist and send him home and the media with him. In 2 weeks all is forgotten and they can go back to pretending to conduct scientific research by slaughtering over 1000 whales.

I think Pete Bethune will be enjoying a well deserved beer and I look forward to see him slapping the Japanese government around again in the not too distant future, and best of all pissing off the PC softcocks on KB. Pete, you're a legend!

[Max Preload]

When you actually use facts instead of the baseless propaganda issued by your betters I'll take you seriously. Until then I shall treat you as a kick monkey - you will dance when I kick you and amuse me when I am bored.

You're the king of baseless propaganda. My posts are verifiable fact. Sorry, you still lose.

[shrub]

You're the king of baseless propaganda. My posts are verifiable fact. Sorry, you still lose.

Of course I do, and don't let go of that belief.

[imdying]

Meanwhile, a tasty whale is turned into steaks

[Max Preload]

Of course I do, and don't let go of that belief.

And you just keep re-enforcing it by ignoring the facts raised.

[shrub]

And you just keep re-enforcing it by ignoring the facts raised.

No, I ignore the half truths, misconceptions and bullshit that the Japanese government feed the gullible and the foolish. I pay a lot of attention to facts; facts that include;

1. The IWC agreed in 1994 to make the area where Bethune operated a whale sanctuary with only Japan voting in dissension.
2. Japan have been engaged in what they call scientific whaling in the area despite protest from all other member states.
3. that scientific whaling would typically result in the slaughter of over 1000 whales.
4. No scientific organisation outside of the Japanese Institute for Cetation Research believes that more than a small number of whales need to be killed.
5. The majority of the whales killed for scientific purposes are sold as meat.

To summarise: The IWC (of which Japan is a member) agreed to make the Southern Whale Sanctuary a no go area for commercial whaling. Japan didn't want to play by the rules, so they're pretending to do scientific research which is really scientific whaling. That means they're lying to us and not playing by the rules that the international community agreed to because they are more interested in making money than preserving a resource.

[MisterD]

preserving a resource.

So you accept that it's a resource we're talking about then? We just need to agree to how best and most fairly to use it?

I have no problem with killing and eating whales, I just don't like the way it's done at the moment (explosive harpoons and all that).

[shrub]

So you accept that it's a resource we're talking about then? We just need to agree to how best and most fairly to use it?

I have no problem with killing and eating whales, I just don't like the way it's done at the moment (explosive harpoons and all that).

Absolutely. Our fisheries are depleting to the point where many have been completely exhausted and the day will come when we may well need to consider whales as a source of protein - but that won't be an option if our lovely Japanese friends have their way. It may be that judicious whale harvesting means existing fisheries can be left to regenerate.

Having said that, having done a lot of sailing in my younger days and having had fullgrown whales less than a metre from my boat on several occassions I love whales and think they are incredibly cool animals and would be much happier if we didn't eat them, but we may well need to one day. I agree with you about explosive harpoons (yet another argument against the Japanese position that their whaling is scientific).

[Max Preload]

No, I ignore the half truths, misconceptions and bullshit that the Japanese government feed the gullible and the foolish. I pay a lot of attention to facts; facts that include;

Clearly, you have no knowledge of the facts. Let me enlighten you.

1. The IWC agreed in 1994 to make the area where Bethune operated a whale sanctuary with only Japan voting in dissension.

And Japan are legally permitted to take whales from the sanctuary under the provisions of The Convention.

2. Japan have been engaged in what they call scientific whaling in the area despite protest from all other member states.

Which they're entitled to do, under The Convention.

3. that scientific whaling would typically result in the slaughter of over 1000 whales.

So what? There's no shortage of whales. Numbers are not in decline.

4. No scientific organisation outside of the Japanese Institute for Cetation Research believes that more than a small number of whales need to be killed.

So what? The Convention allows for it - Japan are operating within the rules.

5. The majority of the whales killed for scientific purposes are sold as meat.

The Japanese are required to utilise the animals taken for research under the provisions of The Convention.

To summarise: The IWC (of which Japan is a member) agreed to make the Southern Whale Sanctuary a no go area for commercial whaling. Japan didn't want to play by the rules, so they're pretending to do scientific research which is really scientific whaling. That means they're lying to us and not playing by the rules that the international community agreed to because they are more interested in making money than preserving a resource.

To summarise: the Japanese are acting entirely within the rules of The Convention.

Now what were you saying about me telling half-truths, you fucking hypocrite?

[shrub]

Now what were you saying about me telling half-truths, you fucking hypocrite?

Let me explain in simple terms. Yes, scientific whaling is permitted, because in 1987 the Japanese pushed for lethal scientific whaling as a way of establishing whether commercial whaling was feasible. This was despite protestation from many of the world's leading cetacian researchers who believed that for everything except stomach content analysis there was no need for the subjects to be killed, and that even so the number of whales killed could be confined to a few a year. Most of the data collected by the Japanese can be collected by non-lethal means because much of what they report on is age, sex and ID and are most interested in the contents of the digestive tract because one of their arguments behind resuming whaling is that the whales are damaging the commercial viability of other fisheries, and a little selective reporting allows them to build their propaganda.

But in a way you're right; they are allowed to engage in scientific whaling and are allowed to kill some of their subjects, and they very cleverly pushed for the requirement that captured whales be onsold after experiments were completed. What I have a problem with is their flagrant disregard for the spirit of the rules in that the size of their annual kill far exceeds even the most generous levels and I personally think that is unacceptable and is an example of them telling the rest of the international community (who choose to play by the rules) to bend over and assume the position, and unlike you I don't like being anyone's bitch, even the Japs.

The southern sanctuary was established to provide whales with a sanctuary, not to give Japan a nice easy hunting ground. Why is it so important to you to see this disregarded?

[shrub]

I've done some research, and it seems that Article 8 of the Whaling Convention permits 'scientific whaling' to be undertaken. However, given the current moratorium on commercial whaling, Japan is attempting to use scientific whaling as a loophole in order to engage in what is quite plainly commercial whaling. It is becoming increasing clear that non-lethal means of research can be legitimately and effectivelyt conducted on whales to produce almost exactly the same results that Japan is getting with it's annual slaughter. And when you look at the sheer number of whales Japan kills, they are abusing the laws that the rest of the world has to abide by simply to pander to a very small section of the population.

Given that the Australian Government after extensive evaluation of the legal position are confident that Japan is operating contrary to the law, and they will have a much better idea than both of us combined I think we can safely say that history will show Japan to have been in the wrong.

[Max Preload]

I really don't give a shit about any of that. The rules are the rules and Japan is operating within them as they curently stand. There's no shortage of whales and I certainly don't have any more attachment to them than I'd have to, say, the slab of cow arse I've purchased at the supermarket for dinner.

It's just a beat up over nothing. Let them eat their goddamned whales in peace.

[tri boy]

I blame Leonard Nimoy, aka "Spock" for hiring whales in star trek 1V, the voyage home.
Now the useless fat fucks want the spot light constantly.
Dice and fry the lard arse bugga's, and chuck that wanker Bethume in the wok too. MHO, sort of.

[shrub]

I really don't give a shit about any of that. The rules are the rules and Japan is operating within them as they curently stand. There's no shortage of whales and I certainly don't have any more attachment to them than I'd have to, say, the slab of cow arse I've purchased at the supermarket for dinner.

It's just a beat up over nothing. Let them eat their goddamned whales in peace.

You're 100% wrong.

1. Resolution 2007-1 of the IWC, which was passed with 40 votes in favour, 2 votes against and 1 abstention "called upon the Government of Japan to suspend indefinitely the lethal aspects of JARPA II conducted within the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary" noting that "none of the goals of JARPA 1 had been reached, and that the results of the JARPA 1 programme are not required for management under the RMP". http://www.iwcoffice.org/meetings/re...tion2007-1.pdf

2. All the species currently hunted by the Japanese are officially listed as endangered by CITES, including the Antarctic Mincke (Balaenoptera bonaerensis) despite extensive lobbying by the Japanese. http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml

Next please.

[MisterD]

There's no shortage of whales and I certainly don't have any more attachment to them than I'd have to, say, the slab of cow arse I've purchased at the supermarket for dinner.

Up to a point, I agree that the argument has been over sentimentalised however that "slab of cow arse" is subject to a shed load of regulations governing it's treatment at slaughter. You are not, for instance, allowed to chase the beast around the paddock chucking spears into its back and leaving it to die of exhaustion and blood-loss (unless of course you're spanish and wearing spangly trousers).

The key point for me is that these are highly intelligent animals and it's unacceptable to kill them in the way the japs do. If there's no humane way to kill em, leave 'em alone.