Freedom of Choice

[John]

prevents the outbursts against americans lol

The irony being that this is all the americans fault and the fact that australia licks some serious US nuts to try be just like them, sure NZ does it but we dont get out PM to go suck off bush (whoa off topic! HA not so) the fact is in the past people I'm sure wouldnt think like this the fact is it became 'gansta' to ride a motorbike with 'yo' 'hoe' on the back and crap like that, its not cool if you have leathers on you cant see how tough or what color you are

Let natural selection take care of them, just dont let us be so dumb eh!

Pixies point is also valid I just let him say it instead save me erm... doing it

[NotaGoth]

The libertarian in me thinks that one should be allowed to do anything one wants,with two important provisos:as long as it doesn't harm or otherwise affect another,and you don't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab to clean up the results of poor decisions.

But isn't the taxpayer already picking up the tab because of some peoples stupidity?

No offence. Just a question.

[James Deuce]

Well had a realization today that I am a fatalist. If it happens it happens. I'm not gonna spend my time worrying about it though. I still wear a leather jacket when doin the short trips and boots but wont really worry about the armour and full face helmet. That's just me though, it's my choice to do so. You people can do what you want. I like to be able to make that choice though otherwise the matrix may aswell exhist but with more confinement.


2c

Yeah but we don't have a choice about paying your medical insurance. ACC is compulsory and collected from many parts of the tax take and most obviously when we pay our registration. Your attitude is what makes our ACC premiums go up, and they are compulsory. No registration, no ride or drive vehicle without possible repercussions.

Being dragged under the wheel of a car at 50km/hr is going to mean that we get to pay for some substantial plastic and orthopaedic surgery to repair the damage. Motorcyclists already make a far too visible proportion of the ACC claims paid out, both for income protection and rehabilitation, so your freedom of choice attitude is actually the freedom of choice to cost everybody who rides bikes an ever increasing amount to register their motorcycles.

Broken bones are easier to heal than skin, muscle, and soft tissue. Decent protective gear can mean the difference between disfigurement and a comparatively small amount of time in pain and discomfort. Mostly discomfort.

I know I lecture about this all the time, but NZ is different to the US in many ways, ACC being an example that is diametrically opposed to almost any point of view on healthcare and ongoing rehabilitation in the US. We can't sue people for causing motor vehicle incidents, or equipment that injures us in the workplace. If we keep giving successive Governments an excuse to exclude motorcyclists from the ACC scheme then we only have ourselves to blame.

[Big Dave]

prevents the outbursts against americans lol

almost the same - Little johhny howard has turned it into the 52nd state anyway.

[Waylander]

the fact is in the past people I'm sure wouldnt think like this the fact is it became 'gansta' to ride a motorbike with 'yo' 'hoe' on the back and crap like that, its not cool if you have leathers on you cant see how tough or what color you are

Let natural selection take care of them, just dont let us be so dumb eh!

You must be talking about the sport bike riders in the states. Most guys on cruisers don't talk like that and the ones that do ride harleys because they are rich and stupid. Cruiser riders (the non harley ones) atleast wear some kind of leather that though it may not look it, will protect you somewhat in a wreck.

[John]

You must be talking about the sport bike riders in the states. Most guys on cruisers don't talk like that and the ones that do ride harleys because they are rich and stupid. Cruiser riders (the non harley ones) atleast wear some kind of leather that though it may not look it, will protect you somewhat in a wreck.

Yea its all image dont miss the point - I just am not good at expressing my thoughts on print.

[Waylander]

Yea its all image dont miss the point - I just am not good at expressing my thoughts on print.

Niether am I.


Jim2

I think things like the ACC are completely pointless anyway. Health coverage should not be paid by other people but how much you yourself can pay should not decide how much help you get in an emergency.

Maybe something inbetween the states healthcare system (HA!!) and NZ ACC is needed but what are the odds of that happening? Probably about the same as LTNZ developing common sense or the American DMV becoming efficiant. (SP?)

[NotaGoth]

Jim sounds really brainy so I'm just gonna agree with him..

:-P

[250learna]

Every time i think about not putting my gears on i think about how many layers of skin that will cost me in an accident, at verly least i will put on a pair of jeans, i hope to soo get some draggin jeans for a more casual look than the cordura pants.
As for top i take the inners out of the jacket if its warm, or wear it with innners if cold, dont like going out without it.
Gloves always
Helmet always
Boots when going for joyrides or longer rides, or to show off

On some occasions i consider putting a pillow in the pants to protect the groin from the tank but have yet to do this

Ohh and thats realy well said Jim2 thumbs up for you

[James Deuce]

Niether am I.


Jim2

I think things like the ACC are completely pointless anyway. Health coverage should not be paid by other people but how much you yourself can pay should not decide how much help you get in an emergency.

Maybe something inbetween the states healthcare system (HA!!) and NZ ACC is needed but what are the odds of that happening? Probably about the same as LTNZ developing common sense or the American DMV becoming efficiant. (SP?)

It doesn't matter what you think should happen. I understand your frustration, but I prefer a non-litigious society. The ACC scheme was bought in via Act of Parliament. You and I don't have a choice about paying ACC premiums and aren't ever likely to. The mounting body of historical evidence the ACC has collected tends to suggest that motorcyclists are dispropotionately represented in injury "accidents", so they have to pay more for their cover. Anything any of us can do to limit the damage we take in accidents will help in the long run. Emergency services and hospital staff certainly treat you differently if you are wearing the correct gear.

You can't have freedom without personal responsibility and in this case the responsibility is to fellow motorcyclists.

[NotaGoth]

Every time i think about not putting my gears on i think about how many layers of skin that will cost me in an accident

Thats actually a good way to think of it

Think you'd much prefer to scrape the shit out of your leathers rather than your body.

Or at least save yourself from as much damage as possible.

[Waylander]

It doesn't matter what you think should happen. I understand your frustration, but I prefer a non-litigious society. The ACC scheme was bought in via Act of Parliament. You and I don't have a choice about paying ACC premiums and aren't ever likely to. The mounting body of historical evidence the ACC has collected tends to suggest that motorcyclists are dispropotionately represented in injury "accidents", so they have to pay more for their cover. Anything any of us can do to limit the damage we take in accidents will help in the long run. Emergency services and hospital staff certainly treat you differently if you are wearing the correct gear.

You can't have freedom without personal responsibility and in this case the responsibility is to fellow motorcyclists.

That would mean that it's not personal resposibillity. Also if things like the minichoppers or pocket bikes wern't clased as road legal motorcycles then the premiums would drop aswell. As for the parliment thing why do you think they don't have one in the states. If you get enough people behind an idea then it should be made into law. Only problem comes with currupt beurocrats and idiot politicions. And ofcourse "motorcyclists are dispropotionately represented in injury 'accidents'" when a bike is hit by a car odds are people in the car don't get hurt. Anyway my head hurts now trying to make all this make sense the way it does in my head so I'm gonna call it quits for this.

[Pixie]

But isn't the taxpayer already picking up the tab because of some peoples stupidity?

No offence. Just a question.

Yeah we are.I'm just refering to my ideal world ,my utopia (means nowhere in greek)

[Pixie]

Yeah but we don't have a choice about paying your medical insurance. ACC is compulsory and collected from many parts of the tax take and most obviously when we pay our registration. Your attitude is what makes our ACC premiums go up, and they are compulsory. No registration, no ride or drive vehicle without possible repercussions.

Being dragged under the wheel of a car at 50km/hr is going to mean that we get to pay for some substantial plastic and orthopaedic surgery to repair the damage. Motorcyclists already make a far too visible proportion of the ACC claims paid out, both for income protection and rehabilitation, so your freedom of choice attitude is actually the freedom of choice to cost everybody who rides bikes an ever increasing amount to register their motorcycles.

Broken bones are easier to heal than skin, muscle, and soft tissue. Decent protective gear can mean the difference between disfigurement and a comparatively small amount of time in pain and discomfort. Mostly discomfort.

I know I lecture about this all the time, but NZ is different to the US in many ways, ACC being an example that is diametrically opposed to almost any point of view on healthcare and ongoing rehabilitation in the US. We can't sue people for causing motor vehicle incidents, or equipment that injures us in the workplace. If we keep giving successive Governments an excuse to exclude motorcyclists from the ACC scheme then we only have ourselves to blame.

The blameless, no fault/no responsibility society.
ACC is one aspect of one faction's attempt at a utopian goal,
Mine is just diferent,I think people should be responsible for their actions/decisions.

[John]

The blameless, no fault/no responsibility society.
ACC is one aspect of one faction's attempt at a utopian goal,
Mine is just diferent,I think people should be responsible for their actions/decisions.

So in essence do you mean that An ideal would be without ACC and have us pay our plastic surgery/rehab etc after we get hit by a car at the lights etc, or do you mean that the others would have to pay - because if you do that then that induces legal fees to process a forced payment so I dont know maybe expand your point?