Freedom of Choice

[Pixie]

It doesn't matter what you think should happen. I understand your frustration, but I prefer a non-litigious society. The ACC scheme was bought in via Act of Parliament. You and I don't have a choice about paying ACC premiums and aren't ever likely to. The mounting body of historical evidence the ACC has collected tends to suggest that motorcyclists are dispropotionately represented in injury "accidents", so they have to pay more for their cover. Anything any of us can do to limit the damage we take in accidents will help in the long run. Emergency services and hospital staff certainly treat you differently if you are wearing the correct gear.

You can't have freedom without personal responsibility and in this case the responsibility is to fellow motorcyclists.

We were on the road to having a choice until this gumint canned the changes to the ACC act instituted by the previous gumint.
Empoyers were given the right to opt for private insurance.
ACC means never having to say you were responsible for fucking up someone's life.

[Pixie]

So in essence do you mean that An ideal would be without ACC and have us pay our plastic surgery/rehab etc after we get hit by a car at the lights etc, or do you mean that the others would have to pay - because if you do that then that induces legal fees to process a forced payment so I dont know maybe expand your point?

This is the way it is in the rest of the western world.If you don't have insurance you don't hold a license.If you are a major risk because you are a c**t on the road ,because you drink etc.you don't get insurance.
Responsibility is forced upon you.
It is not perfect by any means.Some people will drive unlicensed,for instance.
We pay a lot more for our ACC "premium" than a private insurance Co ,who is in a competitive environment would require.
ACC has a monopoly of the best kind,we can't refuse to pay.
And now they try not to pay lump sums by dragging the claimants through the courts.

[John]

This is the way it is in the rest of the western world.If you don't have insurance you don't hold a license.If you are a major risk because you are a c**t on the road ,because you drink etc.you don't get insurance.
Responsibility is forced upon you.
It is not perfect by any means.Some people will drive unlicensed,for instance.
We pay a lot more for our ACC "premium" than a private insurance Co ,who is in a competitive environment would require.
ACC has a monopoly of the best kind,we can't refuse to pay.
And now they try not to pay lump sums by dragging the claimants through the courts.

Yea I just didnt under what you said properly thanks for that - I'd prefer to be paying insurance instead of the dork taxes that even take away all my money be it registration or whatever.

Change will eventually occur the ACC was designed to fail the government knows it.

[zeRax]

i take the freedom of choice path

sure accidents can and do happen, and dissapointingly too frequent.
situations vary, i dont live in a big city, i live in blenheim, its fucking tiny.

for me its far too much effort to put gear on just to quickly go get something in town from a shop or something, when for me when im going to town and back its part of the convience of having a bike in the first place.

sure you can get hurt at low speeds, but in blenheim in 50 limit area's ? im pretty confident ill be fine. heck, i doubt id take a helmet with me if it wasnt a requirement, and thats the attitude that makes things more convenient, and also one that could possibly get you hurt, but that could happen anywhere anytime on and off the road

im not talking about not wearing gear, im talking about times of convenience

i think only a person on a death wish wouldnt wear gear on a long or highspeed ride :P
just dont like ppl getting all angst on others peoples business, the worlds policed enough as it is why join the parade, lifes short and holds no meaning, try not to stress about it guys

are you a betting man?

[Big Dave]

i take the freedom of choice path

Me too

are you a betting man?

'I don't get no respect, I went to gamblers anonymous - they gave me eight to one I don't make it' - Dangerfield R (RIP)

[Motu]

Well I agree with freedom of choice - I would like to be able to make decisions on what I do by myself,not have my life mapped out by the Nanny State.Some decisions will be smart,some stupid...and I like to think I would make smart choices,I always felt I was a step ahead in what I was doing and in a way still do,finances permitting.Personal responsability....or be led by the hand throughout life - it'd nice to have the choice.

[James Deuce]

I'll be sending that hat round to you "freedom of choicers" to pay my next rego, OK?

[Lou Girardin]

Be careful what you wish for folks. Thugby players paying for their own injuries? All sports people, in fact. M/Cyclists not being covered unless we wear Govt approved gear all the time, it could happen. The original ACC scheme was nothing like we have now. Greed, new-right ideology and penny-pinching Governments have reduced the original idea to a farce. We have given away the right to sue in exchange for a pittance. ($10,000 or $20,000 for the loss of an arm, I believe) See my thread "ACC Scum".
PS Benella Vic would be Aust, not USA, I'd say.

[Pwalo]

It's hard to believe that this whole thread came about because of some self righteous prat trying to justify his lack of common sense in what to wear on his bike.

Hope you guys managed to get some sleep.

[250learna]

I'll be sending that hat round to you "freedom of choicers" to pay my next rego, OK?

yeah, i wouldnt mind some of that action. its $30 more for my 250 to be registerd than my "sports car" as government classifys it

[Big Dave]

I'll be sending that hat round to you "freedom of choicers" to pay my next rego, OK?

Sure. I'll conform just for you.

[Yarg]

there were some statistics published a while ago (don't know where) that most accidents happen within 5km of home. Any one else read this??

[Motu]

Be careful what you wish for folks. Thugby players paying for their own injuries? All sports people, in fact. M/Cyclists not being covered unless we wear Govt approved gear all the time, it could happen. The original ACC scheme was nothing like we have now. Greed, new-right ideology and penny-pinching Governments have reduced the original idea to a farce. We have given away the right to sue in exchange for a pittance. ($10,000 or $20,000 for the loss of an arm, I believe) See my thread "ACC Scum".
PS Benella Vic would be Aust, not USA, I'd say.

Poor old Norm will be turning in his grave over ACC - he had no idea that there were people in this country who weren't honest and hard working like him,he really thought he was setting up a great system,a legacy of his term in office.Now people can live their whole life in luxury never having worked a day in their life - the whole system suppoted by a guttless Government too scared to do anything about it.

I have some money in my account last week for a job we haven't even completed yet,I have to stack the price of the job up 50% because WINZ pay out before completion,I need to cover my arse in case of problems - they are happy with that,the owner was told he couldn't afford the payments,so they increased his benefit to cover the extra.I'm paying the customer to get a job done in my own shop....

[FROSTY:Me]

Guys I'd suggest we don't deal in apsolutes.
I beat my chest right alongsie you lot. We MUST wear full riding gear all the time. We must ride in a manner that is safe etc etc etc.
Yet I've found myself riding a borrowed bike with an ill fitting helmet a tee shirt and street shoes.
funny thing was i was so accutely aware of how poorly I'd be if i fell off i think I could hear a bee buzzing 150m away.
Yep it mighta been that one time some idiot......
I think it comes down to risk management.

[eliot-ness]

Quote/ I wear shorts, t-shirt and helmet when travelling 60km/h or under and always wear full leathers when going above 60km/h ??????????????


Obviously a quick change artist. Love to see him do it on the motorway.





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Ninety seven point six percent of statistics are made up on the spot