I am an evil endangered minority

[MSTRS:Me]

I believe that removing road information signage (apart from that which identifies hazards, as noted above) would have a significant positive benefit on road safety for no other reason than drivers would have to concentrate harder on what they're doing, rather than making assumptions or taking no actions at all.

Likening this to the education system...
The public has had thinking trained out of them. Vast numbers are now at the Doctorate stage of this training. What does one do with these people when thinking is re-introduced to the curriculum?

[Edbear]

Well said, Hitcher and some good comments here. Driver training is undoubtably the best option, but if you look at the "accidents" occurring, it's not the new drivers of 15 years of age that are having the crashes, it's a range of young men and women in their twenty's who are boozing and racing and older men who are recidivist drink/disqualified drivers in the main.

The fact is that speed is the easiest of the three mentioned factors to police prior to the fact, how do you police distraction and innattention? And statisitcally, because it is that a reduction in average speed results in a reduction in accidents, it is easy to argue the link, harder to argue the other two due to the inability to do much about them before an accident occurs.

When I was 16 I went through the then newly introduced Defensive Driving Course and those lessons have stood me in good stead throughout my 40 years of driving/riding and has saved me on many occassions. Such a course should be mandatory as part of the licencing procedure.

My recent accident was a wake-up call to me as it was a true accident in that I was driving under the speed limit, driving according to the conditions but could not see the oil on the road that caused the rear tyres to slip sideways. I was doing well under 50km/h on an off-camber bumpy uphill bend. I was stone cold sober, the van had passed its WoF the Friday before, (the accident was Wed 12th May), and everything was in order.

The stretch of road is notorious for accidents, (one resident claims 70 in the last 12 months), and I was assuming they were due to driver inability. A motorcyclist had crashed breaking his leg 20 minutes before my crash on the same corner and we were in ED together in Auckland Hospital, though I never got to meet him. Now I'm more aware that while driver innattention is the leading cause of accidents, there are times when it is not up to you.

I've been shaken up more than I care to admit by the crash, as I was confident and relaxed about my abilities after 40 years without serious incident, then to break my back and nearly kill myself at such a low speed on such an innoccuous and familiar road, was a shock!

[duckonin]

you write good. I'd also say they need to stop straightening the fucken roads. I can do 600km of demanding SI roads no worries, but struggle to remain 100% focussed during 200km from Wellington to Taihape.

There are two corners for u one going into Bulls the other leaving Bulls..ha ha

[SPman]

Double it & Im in the zone....

Just don't try it in Oz....they have more realistic advisory signs over here!

[p.dath]

You can engineer to increase driver attention,cheaply and easily.

A six inch steel spike positioned in front of the drivers forehead in each car,is all it takes.
Making cars safer has the opposite effect.
Why are most motorcyclists more careful and attentive than car drivers?

I can't agree on this one. Putting a death spike in front the the drivers forehead would simply result in a lot of drivers having fatal injuries from minor incidents beyond there control (see that child's ball rolling across the road, or that big dog, or how about that person that just opened up their car door without looking when parked while you were driving by).

Increasing the danger of using the road in the pretence of making it safer is not the solution.

[Bald Eagle]

Increasing the danger of using the road in the pretence of making it safer is not the solution.

This doesn't apply to WRB's off course.

[MSTRS:Me]

Increasing the danger of using the road in the pretence of making it safer is not the solution.

Unless, of course, you ride a motorcycle.

[Big Dave]

Can I stick that on the KR site too please?

[p.dath]

Unless, of course, you ride a motorcycle.

I don't think anyone is under the pretence that riding a motorcycle is safer ...

[PrincessBandit]

1. People will always speed no matter what the speed limit (unless there is no limit at all) simply because they don't like any restrictions or rules imposed on them, oh and because they are convinced they're clever enough to and never encounter a problem they can't cope with adequately. 2. People will always drive/ride/cycle like inconsiderate plonkers because we have a society which encourages every person to be only concerned with their own welfare, wants and needs at the moment (screw thinking about anyone else). 3. Anyone prepared to "follow the law" will readily be labelled a suck-up, arse kisser, pussy (no offence there John), and to people who say that, my reply is

New Zealanders don't like being told they suck at anything. And a lot of road users (regardless of mode of travel) suck. Developing attention won't be successful because the ones who need it the most won't recognise it and will be in a complete state of denial when it's mentioned to them.

[Bass]

To extend what Hitcher said and try to add yet a little more perspective, I have never really understood why there is so much focus on the road toll anyway.
If we look at all the ways that we kill ourselves, doing it on the road is not even near the top of the list.
It seems to me that our knives and forks are our deadliest weapons of mass destruction and there are many other ways of doing ourselves in before we get down to motor vehicle collisions.
Another random example - the last figure I read (in the mainstream media admittedly) for annual deaths in Auckland associated with vehicle generated air pollution, was around 600 (and I can hear the cheers from the other side of the Bombays already).
My point, of course, is why do we agonise so fervently over the road toll while almost ignoring factors that actually kill or harm a much larger number?

[bogan]

To extend what Hitcher said and try to add yet a little more perspective, I have never really understood why there is so much focus on the road toll anyway.
If we look at all the ways that we kill ourselves, doing it on the road is not even near the top of the list.
It seems to me that our knives and forks are our deadliest weapons of mass destruction and there are many other ways of doing ourselves in before we get down to motor vehicle collisions.
Another random example - the last figure I read (in the mainstream media admittedly) for annual deaths in Auckland associated with vehicle generated air pollution was around 600 (and I can hear the cheers from the other side of the Bombays already).
My point, of course, is why do we agonise so fervently over the road toll while almost ignoring factors that actually kill or harm a much larger number?

I reckon its the perception of fault, in other cases its always the faceless masses who do the damage, but in road accidents, it's perceived as mainly the blatant stupidity of the individual. Which I suppose makes it seem more real, and makes it seem like there is more we can do about it.
Thats my theory anyhow, and I'm sticking with it till a better one comes along.

[carbonhed]

Epic rant Hitcher

It's strange that in every field of human endeavour, except driving, if you want to improve you get coaching and practice what you've been taught. I think some of the reluctance comes from experience with outdated forms of training, like skid pan lessons, which gave a false sense of security and actually led to more accidents.

The obsession with "Speed Kills" is because it's easily measured and enforced. The plods get to issue tickets, the brass gets to meet targets and the pollies are seen to be doing "something". There is of course the kernel of truth in the proposition that the faster you hit something the more it's going to hurt. Personally I prefer to not hit anything at all rather than worrying about the speed of impact.

One fact that's religiously avoided by the speed zealots is that if your driving at an innappropriately slow speed it's almost impossible to maintain your concentration on the task in hand. Boredom induced loss of concentration, well known in the aviation industry. Train drivers have to push a button regularly to confirm they're awake/alive otherwise the whole shebang comes to an emergency halt. Our cars on the other hand almost invite you to nod off. Warm, quiet, comfortable seats, home entertainment systems, phones... what could possibly go wrong? It feels as threatening as your lounge! Apart from the fact your sitting in a tonne and a half of steel travelling at 100k a couple of metres away from a bunch of other fuckwits doing exactly the same but in the opposite direction! Concentrate? Optional surely

I think there's some moves in the auto industry to monitor the drivers eyes and thereby tell whether they're looking where they're actually going... now wouldn't that be a fucking novelty!

[Dave Lobster]

My point, of course, is why do we agonise so fervently over the road toll while almost ignoring factors that actually kill or harm a much larger number?

Because there's money in it.

[scumdog]

My point, of course, is why do we agonise so fervently over the road toll while almost ignoring factors that actually kill or harm a much larger number?

I dunno.

maybe more preventable?

or??