Ohlins electronic suspension spotted

[Marmoot]

Would be keen to know if they are actually testing it for MotoGP-type application (i.e., $250k bikes), or for road/mundane/mortal/trackday type development (i.e., sub-$50k bikes).

[JMemonic]

Maybe the electronics will make it all easier to adjust and set up your bike, download a map for your bike, type in your body weight and road conditions then the computer sets it all up for you. Actually I like that idea. But I won't like the price.

Umm thats kind of how I was told the Multistrada works, you set you mode, if you fit the panniers it asks the weights in them, if you have a pillion you enter that and it sets a mapped setting up.

[onearmedbandit]

Interesting reading Robert, thanks. I look forward to reading further developments.

[vindy500]

haha i can see it now, pick up your pillion, now what did you say you weighed again?

[Pixie]

Th autootive world has been experimenting with (essentially) varible viscosity oil. It has metallic magnetic particles in it and by enducing a charge, the partical behaviour 'stiffens' the oil. Not suggest this is how O****s are doing it just mentioning interesting technology

Bose have been selling true electric suspension for some time.
They use linear motors instead of springs and dampers.
This video is quite impressive -especially at the end where they make a Lexus jump over a curb on a flat bit of road:




http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/21/v...ion-in-action/

[bogan]

Bose have been selling true electric suspension for some time.
They use linear motors instead of springs and dampers.
This video is quite impressive -especially at the end where they make a Lexus jump over a curb on a flat bit of road:

fuck thats cool, is active suspension rather than reactive so there has to be ground mapping sensors etc. Bet the jumping feature ain't standard!

[Pixie]

Here's more detail:http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-suspension9.htm

[onearmedbandit]

That's some interesting shit in that video Pixie.

[imdying]

*snip some good shit*

Now that's what I'm talking about, thanks for taking the time to add that for us, appreciated

[Robert Taylor]

The Bose and other similiar systems are indeed interesting. Without benefit of intimately studying it Id surmise that currently it is more promising for high performance passenger cars where ride quality and reasonable chassis stabilityare paramount.
If people in MotoGP and WSBK wanted to embrace the technology their very first hurdle would be getting it past the rulemakers and in the current environment I cant see that happening in a hurry.
And then theres packaging on a motorcycle and the power supplies to run it, not insurmountable problems but existing problems nonetheless. ABS systems are an example, they have merit but with weight and bulkiness.
Race bikes require quite specific damping curves for each circuit and many other variables that can be arranged with specific bleed passages, piston designs and shim stack arrangements. At this point I surmise that the Bose system cannot emulate those curves unless someone has studied it in detail and can tell me otherwise.
Certainly its not being currently embraced with open arms by all suspension manufacturers so I am guessing that there are still limitations or issues as described above that it still cannot address, but will with the passage of time and resources. Thats not in any way being skeptical but it still appears that we will have modulating shim stacks for some time ( albeit with electronic aids ) as they still do an excellent job at reasonable cost.
Whichever, the future looks exciting.

[bogan]

Race bikes require quite specific damping curves for each circuit and many other variables that can be arranged with specific bleed passages, piston designs and shim stack arrangements. At this point I surmise that the Bose system cannot emulate those curves unless someone has studied it in detail and can tell me otherwise.

while I havent done an in-depth look at the bose system (prolly only selected bose employees could do that) I am familiar with the concept. Basicaly it is as different as jets are from props! None of the fluid daming etc need apply as you have a voice-coil type actuator which provides whatever force you need almost instantaneously, so you could simply emulate any curve you wanted if you only look at wheel displacement. However this type of system means you can provide active (rather than the conventional reactive) suspension, which scans ahead and determine what the road surface is doing, going over a bump means changing the force applied by the shock to allow the wheel to rise and fall, but maintaining a constant force applied to the chassis. That's the theory behind active suspension anyway, and in most cases it is possible to recover much of the force needed which greatly reduces the power draw, though I imagine it would still be quite significant.

[schrodingers cat]

Active on a bike would be quite tricky. The positioning of the ride height lasers for a start. Unlike a car which has overhangs and a relitively wide contact patch, a bike travels on a ribbon which is a bit harder to track esp with the bike heeled over.
The main funtion of active (in racing applications) is to preserve aerodynamic efficiency given that the cars are more missles than automobiles.
This technology IMHO is better utilised in a reactive system - particularly as the rider inputs have a far greater effect than that of a driver - esp where and how they transfer weight

[bogan]

Active on a bike would be quite tricky. The positioning of the ride height lasers for a start. Unlike a car which has overhangs and a relitively wide contact patch, a bike travels on a ribbon which is a bit harder to track esp with the bike heeled over.
The main funtion of active (in racing applications) is to preserve aerodynamic efficiency given that the cars are more missles than automobiles.
This technology IMHO is better utilised in a reactive system - particularly as the rider inputs have a far greater effect than that of a driver - esp where and how they transfer weight

have to disagree, if you are going to add all the extra systems you want a significant benefit over conventional suspension, you won't get that using it in a reactive system. The sensors will be very lightweight and with some additional computing power will be able to be interpreted to provide proper active suspension.

[schrodingers cat]

Ummmmm. The sensors are already very small, light and not very expensive. Computing power likewise is neither here no there since it is reliable, cheap and duable these days.
The trouble is writing the code to get the desired result without spitting the rider into the scenery.

What would you be looking for from an 'active' system as an improvement over a reactive system?
What are the key paramaters they need to be addressed?
Would the added complexity actually translate into speed?

Interestingly the Lotus system developed was a true active suspension with a focus more on ride control than optimising chassis attitude. The Williams AP derived system, by their own admission, was a reactive system but ultimatly the more effective solution

Before entering the discussion be sure that 'active' isn't synomous with 'Holy Grail'

[bogan]

Ummmmm. The sensors are already very small, light and not very expensive. Computing power likewise is neither here no there since it is reliable, cheap and duable these days.
The trouble is writing the code to get the desired result without spitting the rider into the scenery.

and with good enough hardware I don't see the coding being a problem, the physics involved are relatively simple and a slow process (donning flame suit now!)

What would you be looking for from an 'active' system as an improvement over a reactive system?
What are the key paramaters they need to be addressed?
Would the added complexity actually translate into speed?

maintaining constant contact and constant force on the road surface would be the improvement, how effective it determine how constant the forces are, and yeh course it translates into speed on a track, but on the road you don't need more speed, just more stability/feel/comfort.