Damn scary - new ambulance probe

[yungatart]

So was the ambulance single crew as well?
All the more reason NOT to have single crew ambos.
A second person aboard could have saved lots of time looking for the place and also driven the ambo back.
All the more reason for double crews on ALL ambos.

[JMemonic]

I am thinking Nasty has it right, its systemic faults at issue.

Dispatch/comms should have had a system that provides better awareness of the area with maps on display , they should have systems that would give them rough idea of the travel times and be asking the driver/crews part way through the journeys about locations.

Crews need to be confident they can ask comms for information and direction an get the right info. The problems lay in management and 'modern' management methods. Employing consultants to fix problems that staff could give the solutions to (and often do give to the consultants) then having no money in the budget to implement the solutions. Bring back a couple of the old hands and see how they worked around the issues in the past, they must have had a solution back then, and see how it can be implemented today.

Sometimes, just sometimes the answer is simple, its the question that's hard.

Nasty I don't know you personally but I felt, remembering the effort you put in to getting them to address this issue, upon reading the article you must have been let down immensely, don't give up go back to them and say why have you not solved this yet? Keep pushing and maybe just maybe something other than talk will be done.

[Nasty]

I love the ambu's.
They are a god sent.
Just felt like saying that - to show that for every fuckup there are probably a million of us who feel the Ambus are doing a good job

Thing is that they are doing a great job .. but wouldn't it be better if they actually did an awesome job and were enabled to do it.

[Mom]

Thing is that they are doing a great job .. but wouldn't it be better if they actually did an awesome job and were enabled to do it.

I would never, ever complain about the ambulance service. I have had to use them twice recently and am so, so thankful they were there to take me to hospital. Infact I even wrote a thank you letter to the crews that picked me up, the sound of that siren, and knowing it was coming to help me is a sound I will never forget. I am certain my breath came easier as I heard the siren approach.

Enabled to do a fantastic job! Absolutely! That poor ambo driver should never have been put in a place where he was sent to a call out with no friggen idea where he was going, well hang on, that is not right, he should have gone immediately, but have been pointed accurately to the scene as he went. I still cant believe he did not understand rapid numbers. That is fundamental knowledge.

[nadroj]

The irony of this incident is that Bob & Annie are bikers (Rusty Nuts) some may have met when they had the Kaieto cafe open.

The criminal action is that of management, sending an ambo into a rural area without ensuring they had training on the Rapid or Fontera numbering systems.

[avgas]

I agree, but there's a difference between an "oops" and a really dangerous and preventable "oops" that causes ordinary people real consequences.

Not really - if there is your job is too easy.
In mine, a fuck-up is a fuck-up. Its just as easy to do, regardless of the consequences.
Best thing you can do is minimize the amount of times a particular fuck-up can happen, and minimize the fallout from the problem.
You can never negate the problem out.
To assume otherwise is foolish.

[avgas]

Thing is that they are doing a great job .. but wouldn't it be better if they actually did an awesome job and were enabled to do it.

Yes, so let the inquiry happen without noses being poked in.
There is a difference between an inquiry and a witch-hunt. An inquiry will find the problem and look for a solution, a witch-hunt merely pointed out "who's fault it was".
I would rather they come out and say "we integrated a new system that checks with the ambulance the gps co-ordinates every 10 minutes" that "It was this guys fault".

I will say it again. The ambu's do a bang up job, they are allowed to fuckup - they simply need to run an inquiry whenever they do.
This is what they are doing.
What are people problems here? Fix your own life no others.

[Naki Rat]

This article in the local newspaper sums up the ambo's situation - no GPS, no cellphone, no radio, and Wellington actual watched the ambulance's progress past its destination and were powerless to advise the driver

An ambulance volunteer worker says his colleague has been unfairly hung out to dry by the Taranaki District Health Board.

The man, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said there were others in the organisation who should be taking some of the blame after Tahora woman Annie Fletcher waited five hours for an ambulance to arrive last Saturday.

The Taranaki District Health Board has blamed driver error for the incident, the second time emergency services have been unable to find a patient in the area in less than two years.

The DHB said it was investigating why the driver had not been able to locate the Fletchers' home with an onboard GPS system.

However, the man who contacted the Taranaki Daily News yesterday said while the driver had made a mistake, he was being treated unfairly.

Others within the service should be taking some of the blame and systemic problems also contributed, he said.

"The driver made a mistake but he couldn't have used GPS – he didn't have one."

"The GPS system is available only to ambulance communications in Wellington," the man said.

"It is for tracking the ambulances, not for plotting a course.

The system meant communications staff could only watch as the lost ambulance driver drove right past the patient's home and 60 kilometres further into the back country.

"There is no cellphone or radio coverage out there," the caller said.

"There was no way they could get hold of him.

"It was a big stumbling block sending a single-crew ambulance."

A second crew member could have helped read the map or kept an eye out for the address, he said.

Taranaki DHB hospital and specialist services general manager Joy Farley said the DHB were not placing all of the blame on the ambulance driver and were doing all they could to support him.

Communications staff had noticed the ambulance was drifting off course but had been unable to contact him by cellphone or radio.

"Under normal circumstances, GPS is not needed because we are able to contact the drivers," she said.

"If ambulance officers have their own GPS system, they are allowed to use it but it must have a verbal alert.

"We don't want our drivers looking at a screen while they are driving, sometimes at speed, and perhaps worried about a patient."

Ms Farley said the issue of ambulance crewing had been looked at in depth in recent years and Mrs Fletcher's case was not considered serious enough to warrant sending a double crew.

"She was classified as being priority three which is non-urgent and there was a first responder present," she said.
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"Her husband was also there and the decision to send a single crew is one I agree with."

[p.dath]

I thik it is bad that the mergency services failed to respond in an adequate time - but if it was me, I woiuld have put the wife on the back seat of the car and started driving to Hospital. Why wait for the ambulance?

[p.dath]

Naki Rat, that story does not add up. If Ambulance staff in Wellington were able to watch the ambulance drive past the property then it meant the onboard GPS system was able to transmit the co-ordinates back to Wellington.

If it could transmit the co-ordinates, then there was a working comunication system. How do ambulances transmit the co-ordinates? The cell phone network (most common method I know of)?

It seems to me if there was a communications network available, and there obviously was, then this was entirely avoidable.

[BoristheBiter]

Naki Rat, that story does not add up. If Ambulance staff in Wellington were able to watch the ambulance drive past the property then it meant the onboard GPS system was able to transmit the co-ordinates back to Wellington.

If it could transmit the co-ordinates, then there was a working comunication system. How do ambulances transmit the co-ordinates? The cell phone network (most common method I know of)?

It seems to me if there was a communications network available, and there obviously was, then this was entirely avoidable.

Two different systems. the one they must only be a tracker.

[FJRider]

Naki Rat, that story does not add up. If Ambulance staff in Wellington were able to watch the ambulance drive past the property then it meant the onboard GPS system was able to transmit the co-ordinates back to Wellington.

If it could transmit the co-ordinates, then there was a working comunication system. How do ambulances transmit the co-ordinates? The cell phone network (most common method I know of)?

It seems to me if there was a communications network available, and there obviously was, then this was entirely avoidable.

As I understand those tracking systems ... they are not using telephone based networks to transmit their location. These systems are often installed in commercial companys (couriers/delivery vehicles/trucks) to monitor vehicle movements progress to their destination... or "unauthorised diverting" from their route. They usually are installed with no input by the driver (turning it off) possible.

[p.dath]

As I understand those tracking systems ... they are not using telephone based networks to transmit their location. These systems are often installed in commercial companys (couriers/delivery vehicles/trucks) to monitor vehicle movements progress to their destination... or "unauthorised diverting" from their route. They usually are installed with no input by the driver (turning it off) possible.

You've missed the point. If they are transmitting their location, then they were in range of a communications network - otherwise they couldn't transmit their location. This was a preventable situation.

[rustic101]

This is not a good situation, however it needs to be put into perspective.

This was not a systemic failure but rather a Human Biological Interface Issue in that the Driver got it wrong.

A large amount of work has been undertake to correct the wrongs of the past and mitigate as much error as possible. It is nearly always impossible to achieve that.

Recently Fire, Ambulance and Police have signed off on a multi agency agreement to use an InterCARD system, driven by Police, to facilitate responses requiring multi agency support. This system has just been nominated for yet an other award after winning local and international awards. This system was designed and created after a number of high profile incidents some of which we know have deeply affected members of our KB community.

All of the Emergency Services do the best they possible can, use the tools at their disposal, but there will, unfortunately still be failings. No one starts their shift not giving a fats rats arse.

Some times its hard for us to push past our emotions and look at the great work that each service does everyday.

[Pussy]

As I understand those tracking systems ... they are not using telephone based networks to transmit their location. These systems are often installed in commercial companys (couriers/delivery vehicles/trucks) to monitor vehicle movements progress to their destination... or "unauthorised diverting" from their route. They usually are installed with no input by the driver (turning it off) possible.

Yep... same system as the flight following system that the company I used to fly for uses. Done by satellite tracking