Psyclepath
That would be me, largely because they're a bunch of authoritarian social-engineers with a thin environmental veneer. I'd quite like to see a pragmatic "real" green party able to work with whatever government to advance actual environmental issues in a sensible way. I don't think Russel's rag tag bunch of hippies and communists would allow the genetic engineering required to get those pigs flying though...Originally Posted by shrub
Only a homo puts an engine back together WITHOUT making it go faster.
dodgy is as dodgy does
I see, a fairly typical response. How much do you know about the current Green party members, about green ideology or the policies of the NZ Green party? How many of the current Green MPs are communists?
And what does "a bunch of authoritarian social-engineers" actually mean? Is that like National closing down ECan and appointing managers? Or the whole super city thing?
And I think you'll find that the Green party are willing to work with anyone and as I recall were open to working with National, but Perky Rodney and Act threw their toys out of the cot.
Don't blame me, I voted Green.
Who do these greenies think they are they want to turn black the clock and everybody should ride bycicles and walk everywhere. Dont they know this is the 21st century and the chinese are our friends. We cant afford to piss them off or they will stop trading with us and then well have to buy everything from britain and America and pay twice as much. Russell Norman should get real and realise he's hurting NZ with his stupid behavior.
Forum whore
kieth locke........Interestingly....gareth hughes mother is...Robyn Hughes.
Co-leader Metiria Turei....is a ex- candidate for the McGillicuddy Serious Party and also the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party....so from that we know shes a retard!! and someone you can not take seriously!!
and as for mr....give me back my flag....give me back my flag....give me back my flag....give me back my flag...he needs to grow up...and get some life skills!!
dodgy is as dodgy does
Very good, the greenies are evil because they want us to walk and cycle everywhere. Actually, they don't, but never let the truth get in the way of a good prejudice, and out of all of the parties they probably have the most vision and commitment to technology and development.
And international free trade agreements are very complex documents, and not as simple as you think. For example, my HP laptop (made in China) was purchased from Noel Leeming, who in turn purchased it from someone representing HP who are a multinational company based in (from memory) the US, and the Chinese are about as likely to say "we won't make your laptops any more because Russel Norman pissed us off" as Her Majesty the Queen is to release a hip hop song.
Don't blame me, I voted Green.
dodgy is as dodgy does
Keith Locke is a communist? Really? I know his mother was, but then my mother was a nurse, and I'm not a nurse, so there goes that argument. And Turei may well have been a member of McGillicuddys - it shows she has a sense of humour and at one stage in her life didn't take things seriously. But your past means nothing - I was a founding member of the Act Party and thought Roger DOuglas was an OK kind of guy with some great ideas. Then I started studying politics and economics.
Nice try though, thanks.
Don't blame me, I voted Green.
Forum whore
well at the end of the day...we live in a democracy...which is something the greens support...as part of their own charter...the majority of this democracy think the greens are full of crap...and vote accordingly. Shows New Zealanders arn't stupid as a majority.
Forum whore
The Chinese government is moving hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.
Can you even begin to realise the magnitude of this task?
It's a multi-generational process. In order to make the process equitable they need to maintain an authoritarian government so they can prevent the society fragmenting along economic and regional boundaries.
The greatest pleasure of my recent life has been speed on the road. . . . I lose detail at even moderate speed but gain comprehension. . . . I could write for hours on the lustfulness of moving swiftly.
--T.E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
dodgy is as dodgy does
I am very aware of the complexity and magnitude of the task facing the Chinese government with a population of 1.33 bn, a land area of 2.5 m hectares, numerous languages (although the majority speak Mandarin) and a decentralised fiscal system which is essentially where local bodies fund health and education. From memory 500 million Chinese have been lifted from poverty, and on the face of it, that's a good thing. For a start, a functioning middle class is one of the key requirements of a successful democracy, and as inglehart identified, the wealthier a nation the more likely they are to adopt post-materialist ideologies (statistically most greenies are well educated and prosperous).
However the rising wealth in China is presenting some interesting problems (along with exciting opportunities). As consumption of goods and use of the ecosystem as a waste sink rises, air and water pollution is becoming a major problem, the amount of arable land in China has decreased by 20% over the last few decades, water shortages are becoming serious and rising ineuality is producing increasing civil unrest; something that has been exacerbated by the restrictions placed on urban migration because all the money to be made is in the cities.
And it's interesting watching the impact of China on the NZ dairy industry. I have a good friend who's a resource management consultant, and a lot of his job involves helping dairy farmers manage their available water and access new water supplies, and he is convinced that within 10 years Canterbury will be facing a major environmental problem from nitrification and depletion of the aquifers, mostly caused by massive increases in dairy which in turn is driven by increased demand and increased prices. Which impact on the price you and I pay for a pint of milk and a slab of cheese.
As a nation where our greatest resource is water, we need to manage the consumption of that water carefully because in the future it will place us in a very strong position. Because all farming is essentially converting water and sunlight into food, and thereby exporting that water, it may be that we need to move away from dairy into vegetables or even back to grains and cereals (grain is the most efficient way to export water). We also need to develop technologies that can increase the efficiency of our agriculture (including GE) and export our technological expertise, which is why the Greens are so gung-ho on science and technology (although I disagree with their position on genetic engineering).
Don't blame me, I voted Green.
dodgy is as dodgy does
Not really. From my observation the majority of people don't really understand any of the parties or have read any of their policies (I did a degreen in politics a few years ago, and had to read and analyse them all for an assessment), and have based their position on the Greens on what their mates at the pub reckon, Sue Bradford stopping them from hitting kids and Nandor Tancoz smoking pot. And life is not a binary, so just because you don't vote for a party doesn't mean you think they're "full of crap". I didn't vote for National because I think they're weak and unimaginative, and potentially even more duplicitous than Labour, but there are a lot of things I like about National and National policies and don't think they're "full of crap".
But even if the majority do think "the greens are full of crap", representative democracy is about representing the diversity of opinions in society, and 7.5% of the population support the Greens, and that is a significant percentage. The Greens will never be the government, and that's a good thing. Their role as a smaller party is to influence the decisions of the big catch-all parties and provide checks and balances - and the same applies to Act. Both Act and the Greens are important voices in parliament, although I think Peter Dunne is surplus to reuirements and I am unsure of the value of the Maori party.
Don't blame me, I voted Green.
I'ma get medieval on your ass!
Thoughtful post and I agree. Our pastoral farming business is bucolic and relatively green compared with other nations. Nevertheless it is not particularly efficent in terms of food production. Market gardening produces far more nutrition per hectare than sheep, beef, or dairy farming. I don't know the statistics for grain but suspect you are right - its a very efficient way of producing and shipping food.
The thing about water is we can use it much more cleverly than the broadcast irrigation schemes you see from the road. For example spot irrigation run between 10pm and 8am when the soil is cool avoids evaporation. Spot irrigation is a system of small water spray points dotted over a pasture. In a garden this can be permanent but on a farm it needs to be moveable so some work is required moving lines around. Heavy hooved animals such as cows can be a problem but I'm sure there are solutions.
Another issue is soil type. In NZ we have a variety of soils, some consisting of deep loam, others being light and porous such as Canterbury. Its a glacial outwash plain with thin soil deficient in humus and thus unable to retain moisture. Same with the Mackenzie Country. Yet people want to dairy farm in these places??!! Insanity.
The simple rule is to respect nature and work with it. Dry desert conditions? Sow drought-resistant grasses. Its not rocket science.
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