ACC be f$$cked, what about the real issues?

[98tls]

Seems theres endless aggro concerning the ACC thing and there blatant gathering of our hard earned but little on the Welfare system which methinks cripples this country more and has done awhile,more to the point how easily our hard earned is dished out on a daily basis.Bit of a rant but have been steaming about an incident at work yesterday when a mate of mine who works a second job in a servo station was at work and in rocked this bloke who also works with us in an SS Commodore and fills it up,no problem so far a little about this prick before i continue,hes 48 or so rents a house with 2 kids both of whom spend more time in family court than they do at school,hes been in court a few times for giving the Mrs the bash but shes either to stupid or...........ok just to stupid to piss off,his wages generally end up down his throat or in the pokies at the pub.anyways upon filling up the car he ends up paying for his gas with some voucher type thing from Social welfarewtf is that about?i have listened to his shit for a few years now but after hearing that i couldnt hold back and at smoko yesterday when listening to him talking about going to CH-CH these days off said "no doubt the rest of us are paying for the trip you bludging c%nt"he knew exactly what i was on about and simply went back to work.How do these guys get away with this stuff,anyone else got any tales of extreme bludgers and the shithouse dept that is Winz thaty hands out our $ so easily?

[Blackshear]

I KO'd a motherfucker after he went around boasting that his $600 per week ACC payment was more than anyone else at the party earned, despite killing a person with his bike.
You meet your fair share of bludgers, half of them try their best to stay on the system - others would scam it by getting a job long enough to quit and get back on the dole.
IMO, it's like putting your life on hold. You don't earn enough to save for anything or do anything, barely even scrape on by.
These people you can't help, I feel that they are punished enough by wasting their life.

[98tls]

I KO'd a motherfucker after he went around boasting that his $600 per week ACC payment was more than anyone else at the party earned, despite killing a person with his bike.
You meet your fair share of bludgers, half of them try their best to stay on the system - others would scam it by getting a job long enough to quit and get back on the dole.
IMO, it's like putting your life on hold. You don't earn enough to save for anything or do anything, barely even scrape on by.
These people you can't help, I feel that they are punished enough by wasting their life.

Hear what your saying though this guy takes home a wage similar to mine,gets the "bludging for familes " crap for his kids and still manages to get handouts for fucking petrol,not to mention is allowed to tick up a bloody car,madness.

[AllanB]

Yeah - there are those working the system. I know of a family of 4 - Dad had a genuine work accident and could not physically work - no issues there, unfortunately the 3 kids have managed to spend the better part of 30 years off work on benefits - all a capable of working - hell one even spent years off work because she convinced some doctor that 'work made her fat' .....

Think is - no one wants them anymore - would you hire them? They would be quite capable of picking up rubbish around town to earn their keep.

What you need to do is find someone who can tell you all t he little known angles and extras you can claim. You'd be amazed at what frivilous shit gets paid out to people who still smoke a pack of ciggs a day and spend $50 a week on lotto.......

[98tls]

The prick i work with A is just one of many i know in this small town,if theres one thing in his favour its at least he manages to get up and go to work,theres many more that dont bother though are capable to.This shit goes on before our eyes every day but it seems so commonplace that we just suck it up eh.Thing is i guess if you went about trying to do something about it ie dobbing the fuckers in you would hit a brick wall as it would see the otherwise unemployable at Winz losing there jobs.One has to wonder if the constant volume of Tongan visitors to Winz even in this small town isnt related (xcuse the pun) to the fact that 1/2 the people working in there are Tongans?

[rainman]

...the shithouse dept that is Winz thaty hands out our $ so easily?

I was with you until this bit, kinda. In the sense that I don't have any time for "career bludgers" (people should pull their weight in society), but not in the sense that I think that all beneficiaries are anything like the guy you have described. A lot out there are genuinely struggling, keen to work, not sure where the rent/food is going to come from.

Having recently had some experience dealing with WINZ I can personally attest that they by no means hand out the $ "so easily". They are an incompetent pack of arses, for sure, and do practically bugger all to help people out of work, into work, but I would certainly not call them either generous or forthcoming in handing out the $$$. And they are very keen to get back anything they do give out if you do get work (even a very small amount of very temporary income) - I apparently owe them a chunk of cash because my partner got a few days work, two weeks running - for which she won't be paid for some time, but never mind.

To repeat the popular myth that they are throwing money at all and sundry is just not honest.


EDIT: Just re-read your post. If the guy is working (unless it's very part-time) then I would be surprised that WINZ would have anything to do with him at the moment. This sounds more like a scam to me - what's the basis for him getting any help from WINZ if he is not disabled, sick, or unemployed? WfF, sure, but nothing from WINZ.

[p.dath]

I met a woman once who wanted a baby. She owned a freehold house. So she took out a mortgage and blew the cash, and quit her full time time. She paid to get artifically inseminated via a sperm donor.

She then got the solo mother's benefit, and an allowance to pay for the mortgage (she knew that WINZ would pay it off for her).

I was speechless when she said what she had done. All of it with such purpose and to work the system.

[mashman]

I met a woman once who wanted a baby. She owned a freehold house. So she took out a mortgage and blew the cash, and quit her full time time. She paid to get artifically inseminated via a sperm donor.

She then got the solo mother's benefit, and an allowance to pay for the mortgage (she knew that WINZ would pay it off for her).

I was speechless when she said what she had done. All of it with such purpose and to work the system.

she's probably 2nd or 3rd generation bludger... who says parents don't teach their kids to look after themselves... i spent 6 years in bludger central... the easiest one seemed to be pretending to split up... the council would have house you and pay for your rent etc... you never actually go anywhere, you still live with your "partner", but as well as having your rent paid on both yours and your partners property, you have also obtained a rental property .. simple yet very lucrative.

[98tls]

Rainman the guys working a full time job,12 hour days 4 on 4 off with plenty of overtime if needed,no doubt a scam,my point is how the fuck do they get away with it?I am not having a rant as in people that no doubt genuinely need help and accept theres plenty out there,absolutly no problem with that at all.

[Scuba_Steve]

I like the idea of scrapping the dole in favor of $10k for everyone, thos who then work get more. thos who don't well, you got all the money your getting, Make Do!

[geoffm]

Ahh, where to start with bludgers... One of my first jobs was running a large plastics factory. We needed machien operators - the only skill was turnng up to work (actually harder to find than it sounds). We gave up asking the labour department to send some unemployed along. We quickly found that they were unemployed by choice and did not want a job in any circumstances. Some said so, and that they were turning up to the interviews just to get it ticked off, and one was earning more than me at the time and in fact would have had to take a pay cut to come to work. A complete waste of time for everyone.
It is impossible to get WINZ help when you need it (try losing your job tomorrow and seeing what happens), but these scum manage just fine. IMO it is due to rellies or mates on the inside who know howto work the system to advantage.
Geoff

[rainman]

I met a woman once who wanted a baby. She owned a freehold house. So she took out a mortgage and blew the cash, and quit her full time time. She paid to get artifically inseminated via a sperm donor.

She then got the solo mother's benefit, and an allowance to pay for the mortgage (she knew that WINZ would pay it off for her).

Sounds pretty crap to me, in moral terms, but what would you do differently to prevent it?
No law against mortgaging your house and blowing the money on silliness.
No law against having kids, even by sperm donor.
No law against having no moral compass and taking more than your share, either, otherwise lots of people would be in the shit.

Also no law against being skint, having a baby in good faith expectation of a lasting relationship, and having that relationship break up (or, same effect, having a partner die), leaving you with a kid to look after, no income and no assets.

Unless you are proposing stopping these things by law, people will do them. And then there's a kid to factor into the equation, so it's not as easy to say "fuck 'em, let them starve". Designing policy that differentiates between what is morally repugnant and what is genuinely unfortunate is difficult otherwise someone would have done it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Rainman the guys working a full time job,12 hour days 4 on 4 off with plenty of overtime if needed,no doubt a scam,my point is how the fuck do they get away with it?

So, dob him in. Either he is entitled to the support or he's not (maybe his circumstances are more complicated than he lets on, maybe he's a cheat). If it is on the up and up, all good, if he's a crook, all good. Only cost is your time and a bit of time within WINZ to investigate him.

I like the idea of scrapping the dole in favor of $10k for everyone, thos who then work get more. thos who don't well, you got all the money your getting, Make Do!

Not a completely silly idea. Wonder if it might not lead to a general decline in productivity though?
And, is it $10k per adult? Per family? Per household? Everyone over 16?
I suspect the budget would not stack up for some of those.

[p.dath]

I like the idea of scrapping the dole in favor of $10k for everyone, thos who then work get more. thos who don't well, you got all the money your getting, Make Do!

Ahh, the old "universal benefit". Cheap to administer. Do you know if any other country has it?

Sounds pretty crap to me, in moral terms, but what would you do differently to prevent it?
No law against mortgaging your house and blowing the money on silliness.
No law against having kids, even by sperm donor.
No law against having no moral compass and taking more than your share, either, otherwise lots of people would be in the shit.

Also no law against being skint, having a baby in good faith expectation of a lasting relationship, and having that relationship break up (or, same effect, having a partner die), leaving you with a kid to look after, no income and no assets.

She wasn't skint. She wasn't in a relationship, or even seeing anyone. She got her self articifically inseminated from a donor (aka, no sex involved). She quit her job. She loaded herself up with debt.

But your right - she hasn't done anything against the rules. I thought about if for quite a while at the time, and realised I couldn't report her for doing anything wrong. She was just working the system.

Unless you are proposing stopping these things by law, people will do them. And then there's a kid to factor into the equation, so it's not as easy to say "fuck 'em, let them starve". Designing policy that differentiates between what is morally repugnant and what is genuinely unfortunate is difficult otherwise someone would have done it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I don't think we should have any more laws to reolve this issue. There are always gong to be people deliberately trying to work the system, and everytime you try and stop them, you stop law abiding people in some other way.

[mashman]

I like the idea of scrapping the dole in favor of $10k for everyone, thos who then work get more. thos who don't well, you got all the money your getting, Make Do!

Not a completely silly idea. Wonder if it might not lead to a general decline in productivity though?
And, is it $10k per adult? Per family? Per household? Everyone over 16?

You've read the thread right? lol, and you'd happily give these guys 10K for the year, let's be generous and say 20K (if the stats added up), and then you expect them to make it last a year it'll be gone in a week, then it'll be back to robbin and scammin for a living lol... money, hero of the day ... if there had been no money involved noone would give a shit

It's a stupid idea.

[Scuba_Steve]

You've read the thread right? lol, and you'd happily give these guys 10K for the year, let's be generous and say 20K (if the stats added up), and then you expect them to make it last a year it'll be gone in a week, then it'll be back to robbin and scammin for a living lol... money, hero of the day ... if there had been no money involved noone would give a shit

It's a stupid idea.

The 10k's leaked over the year NOT a lump sum. its the same basic dole amount as they get now, only thing is, that is ALL you get & there would be no winz office to scam more money out of. No tax payer paid pools, cars or investment homes.