ACC be f$$cked, what about the real issues?

[mashman]

The 10k's leaked over the year NOT a lump sum. its the same basic dole amount as they get now, only thing is, that is ALL you get & there would be no winz office to scam more money out of. No tax payer paid pools, cars or investment homes.

I see what you're saying, but it's not going to change a thing... again look at the thread, these guys already get $X amount per year and still screw the system and top up their earnings from other sources (illegal or not). The office of WINZ (or alternative) will have to remain to administer the scheme, and then you have to deal with the people... the indigenous will cry foul (as they are protected by international law/treaty), then the rest will cry foul because one "minority" is getting more than another... nothing changes steve, as much as i'd like to see ideas like that fly, we have to deal with the same arseholes that we always have (including the politicians and tax cheats) and they all have human rights...

you wanna fix it, remove the financial system!

[BoristheBiter]

Unless you are proposing stopping these things by law, people will do them. And then there's a kid to factor into the equation, so it's not as easy to say "fuck 'em, let them starve". Designing policy that differentiates between what is morally repugnant and what is genuinely unfortunate is difficult otherwise someone would have done it.

No its very easy to say "LET THE FUCKERS STARVE"

[bogan]

I see what you're saying, but it's not going to change a thing... again look at the thread, these guys already get $X amount per year and still screw the system and top up their earnings from other sources (illegal or not). The office of WINZ (or alternative) will have to remain to administer the scheme, and then you have to deal with the people... the indigenous will cry foul (as they are protected by international law/treaty), then the rest will cry foul because one "minority" is getting more than another... nothing changes steve, as much as i'd like to see ideas like that fly, we have to deal with the same arseholes that we always have (including the politicians and tax cheats) and they all have human rights...

you wanna fix it, remove the financial system!

or remove their ability to breed, tubes tied if you want to get the dole for more than 5 years, family thing for more than one year. Seriously, where in the human rights does it say contributing members of society have to pay for the rest to have kids?

[mashman]

or remove their ability to breed, tubes tied if you want to get the dole for more than 5 years, family thing for more than one year. Seriously, where in the human rights does it say contributing members of society have to pay for the rest to have kids?

lol, didn't we all do that dance a while ago... It probably doesn't state it explicitly, but it wouldn't take a lawyer to argue it... although it probably would and you'd need another 8 or 9 of them to make sure that the first 7 or 8 were correct... If you want to get brutal, give them nothing. Make them earn their citizenship for entitlements... they'll play the game for 5 minutes and that'll be that...

[bogan]

lol, didn't we all do that dance a while ago... It probably doesn't state it explicitly, but it wouldn't take a lawyer to argue it... although it probably would and you'd need another 8 or 9 of them to make sure that the first 7 or 8 were correct... If you want to get brutal, give them nothing. Make them earn their citizenship for entitlements... they'll play the game for 5 minutes and that'll be that...

I recall no such dancing I don't want to get too brutal, as my family was once in a situation of need, but my parents worked their asses off to get us out (mind you it was probably a completely different story 25 years ago). Which is why I reckon a sliding scale or something dependant on time spent on the benifits would be good, and if that doesn't work, stop em breeding so they won't just make more bludgers.

[mashman]

No its very easy to say "LET THE FUCKERS STARVE"

The government expects you to work, yet it needs a percentage of the population to be unemployed to keep ?inflation? down. Tell me, when they've all died because they couldn't afford to eat and the cost of living shoots up because they're all dead and inflation has gone bananas, wouldn't that screw the economy again? There are still too many people on the breadline (for whatever reason) and i'd venture that as inflation rises, businesses that are barely surviving will go to the wall creating yet another group of unemployed... however, this new group of unemployed wants to work because they know that if they dont they'll die... unfortunately there's no work around, so they die too... and on and on... unless one of the unemployed decides fuck you... that's a few thousand people trying to stay alive... what would you do to stay alive in those circumstances?

[BoristheBiter]

The government expects you to work, yet it needs a percentage of the population to be unemployed to keep ?inflation? down. Tell me, when they've all died because they couldn't afford to eat and the cost of living shoots up because they're all dead and inflation has gone bananas, wouldn't that screw the economy again? There are still too many people on the breadline (for whatever reason) and i'd venture that as inflation rises, businesses that are barely surviving will go to the wall creating yet another group of unemployed... however, this new group of unemployed wants to work because they know that if they dont they'll die... unfortunately there's no work around, so they die too... and on and on... unless one of the unemployed decides fuck you... that's a few thousand people trying to stay alive... what would you do to stay alive in those circumstances?

Not trying to be rude (well not much) but what a pile of shit.
Unemployed to keep inflation down?? WTF?? What accountancy school did you go to?
inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services in an economy over a period of time and has nothing to do with unemployment.

If there was no unemployment then there would be 1.2 billion dollars back into our services. just think of the health care we could have with that.
If someone can't look after themselves why should I give a rats, as i know dam well they don't give one about me.

[mashman]

Not trying to be rude (well not much) but what a pile of shit.
Unemployed to keep inflation down?? WTF?? What accountancy school did you go to?
inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services in an economy over a period of time and has nothing to do with unemployment.

If there was no unemployment then there would be 1.2 billion dollars back into our services. just think of the health care we could have with that.
If someone can't look after themselves why should I give a rats, as i know dam well they don't give one about me.

Be as rude as you like... me is thick skulled ... google "relationship between unemployment and inflation" and you'll see what the financial experts waffle on about (they even have an equation for it, go figure lol)... it's been thrown around on KB a bit too... You need to balance unemployment to keep inflation in check...

You pretty much sum up an attitude that keeps us all in the stale mate that we're in... the "who gives a fuck about me" and "why should i care about you" attitudes... in answer though, noone, least of all your government gives a shit... but i would if you're really BorisThePillowBiter

[mashman]

I recall no such dancing I don't want to get too brutal, as my family was once in a situation of need, but my parents worked their asses off to get us out (mind you it was probably a completely different story 25 years ago). Which is why I reckon a sliding scale or something dependant on time spent on the benifits would be good, and if that doesn't work, stop em breeding so they won't just make more bludgers.

lol... you know we did My parents did the same for us (approx 3 million unemployed in the UK 30 years ago), then I did it with my family, but families split and finances disappear... fact of life. It doesn't matter what "solution" is thrown at the "problem" of bludgers, because they ain't stupid (they just don't need to make the man any richer)... the main reason I work is because i have a family to support... if i didn't, i'd quite fancy going back to the days of no money, no worries, no expectations and all day with my kids... it was an easy easy life. That's the sort of attitude we're dealing with... it's not wholly malicious by any means, they just settle for less... Whereas at the other end of the scale we have lifes real no hopers, the ones who constantly strive for more... they're the ones i'd rather render seedless...

[bogan]

lol... you know we did My parents did the same for us (approx 3 million unemployed in the UK 30 years ago), then I did it with my family, but families split and finances disappear... fact of life. It doesn't matter what "solution" is thrown at the "problem" of bludgers, because they ain't stupid (they just don't need to make the man any richer)... the main reason I work is because i have a family to support... if i didn't, i'd quite fancy going back to the days of no money, no worries, no expectations and all day with my kids... it was an easy easy life. That's the sort of attitude we're dealing with... it's not wholly malicious by any means, they just settle for less... Whereas at the other end of the scale we have lifes real no hopers, the ones who constantly strive for more... they're the ones i'd rather render seedless...

you sure? maybe you're not a memorable dancer that is true, but the shitter the life, the less the contributing member have to pay them. So you reckon having the aptitude but being too lazy to work is better than those who wish to work in high profile/intelligence jobs but lack the aptitude? I would have thought the later still contributed to society more by settling for 'lesser' jobs.

[BoristheBiter]

Be as rude as you like... me is thick skulled ... google "relationship between unemployment and inflation" and you'll see what the financial experts waffle on about (they even have an equation for it, go figure lol)... it's been thrown around on KB a bit too... You need to balance unemployment to keep inflation in check...

You pretty much sum up an attitude that keeps us all in the stale mate that we're in... the "who gives a fuck about me" and "why should i care about you" attitudes... in answer though, noone, least of all your government gives a shit... but i would if you're really BorisThePillowBiter

thanks i needed that giggle.

I guess you are refering to the phillps curve in which he shows the inflation/unemployment relationship.

One of those theorys that can be made to work either way depending upon what side you are on.
It has been IMHO that it is more of a unemployment/wage prices relationship as if there is more disposable income then more people are prepaired to pay higher prices to a point where compation steps in and lowers the price leading to a stabling/lowering of wages.

Best described in the triangle model which goes into the wage/price spiral.

[mashman]

thanks i needed that giggle.

I guess you are refering to the phillps curve in which he shows the inflation/unemployment relationship.

One of those theorys that can be made to work either way depending upon what side you are on.
It has been IMHO that it is more of a unemployment/wage prices relationship as if there is more disposable income then more people are prepaired to pay higher prices to a point where compation steps in and lowers the price leading to a stabling/lowering of wages.

Best described in the triangle model which goes into the wage/price spiral.

Fuck sake i didn't read it all man, speak ingrish ... yup, the Philips Curve and like ya say, can swing all ways depending on the inputs and methods used to collect those inoputs... that curve could quite possibly be the one thing that keeps the economy going the way it's going... coz someone worked it out, it must be right and we all know that inflation is all bad... lol... This is why i'd rather keep the low paid bludgers and get rid of the ones who "KNOW" better than the rest of us...

[mashman]

you sure? maybe you're not a memorable dancer that is true, but the shitter the life, the less the contributing member have to pay them. So you reckon having the aptitude but being too lazy to work is better than those who wish to work in high profile/intelligence jobs but lack the aptitude? I would have thought the later still contributed to society more by settling for 'lesser' jobs.

of course i'm a memorable dancer, just in a really really bad way ... Now i never said they were too lazy to work, they're your words... the way i look at it is... if you take more than you need, you're taking it off someone else (yes i am guilty of this, but generally know when i'm doing it)... Intelligence means fuck all these days... the dumbest fuck on the planet can come up with the greatest solution in the history of mankind, yet the intelligent elite would most likely character assassinate the dumb fuck, before stealing his/her idea, breaking it into its constituent parts, finding out what's profitable and then would start development of the solution, but would stage its deployment until such time that the goal has been achieved, or something better comes along... we worry about our differences too much and are taught to do so... YOU'RE THICK IF YOU LOOK IT, SOUND IT, OR COME UP WITH IDEAS OUTSIDE OF YOUR STATION... you're taught not to argue with experts, because that's why they're called experts... which as it turns out has fucked up the global warming thing, has let oil gush into an ocean, has stopped us going into space, has told us that zero point energy can't be obtained, are telling us that they need to cut on government spending because they're in too much debt (after 150 years of government, go figure)... we're told waaaaaaaay too many things that just aren't true.

Bludger is a state of mind and that's at both ends of the scale... intelligence is a way overrated mechanism for guaranteeing business value... in essence we're all (obviously apart from me as i'm typing this ) full of so much prejudice towards one another that we actually forget that the only thing that seperates one human being from another is some dangly bits and an opinion or two... other than that we're all the SAME... we all have lifes little problems, grow old, die... but that's just hippy greeny nonsense bullshit...

[BoristheBiter]

Fuck sake i didn't read it all man, speak ingrish ... yup, the Philips Curve and like ya say, can swing all ways depending on the inputs and methods used to collect those inoputs... that curve could quite possibly be the one thing that keeps the economy going the way it's going... coz someone worked it out, it must be right and we all know that inflation is all bad... lol... This is why i'd rather keep the low paid bludgers and get rid of the ones who "KNOW" better than the rest of us...

But then i think it has no relationship to that at all. if you had read it all you would see that it has not been really used since the 70's as it has been showen to be more indepth than the basic model put forward by phillips
Inflation is only bad if wages/income does not rise at the same time as with the downside to no inflation is no growth.

there is always a need for somone do to the lower paid work, its the ones that get it, and sometimes more, for doing nothing need a good slapping.
there are plenty of community projects and the like that need some labour, get them out there one day a week and that would also help get them into the work idea.

[bogan]

of course i'm a memorable dancer, just in a really really bad way ... Now i never said they were too lazy to work, they're your words... the way i look at it is... if you take more than you need, you're taking it off someone else (yes i am guilty of this, but generally know when i'm doing it)... Intelligence means fuck all these days... the dumbest fuck on the planet can come up with the greatest solution in the history of mankind, yet the intelligent elite would most likely character assassinate the dumb fuck, before stealing his/her idea, breaking it into its constituent parts, finding out what's profitable and then would start development of the solution, but would stage its deployment until such time that the goal has been achieved, or something better comes along... we worry about our differences too much and are taught to do so... YOU'RE THICK IF YOU LOOK IT, SOUND IT, OR COME UP WITH IDEAS OUTSIDE OF YOUR STATION... you're taught not to argue with experts, because that's why they're called experts... which as it turns out has fucked up the global warming thing, has let oil gush into an ocean, has stopped us going into space, has told us that zero point energy can't be obtained, are telling us that they need to cut on government spending because they're in too much debt (after 150 years of government, go figure)... we're told waaaaaaaay too many things that just aren't true.

Bludger is a state of mind and that's at both ends of the scale... intelligence is a way overrated mechanism for guaranteeing business value... in essence we're all (obviously apart from me as i'm typing this ) full of so much prejudice towards one another that we actually forget that the only thing that seperates one human being from another is some dangly bits and an opinion or two... other than that we're all the SAME... we all have lifes little problems, grow old, die... but that's just hippy greeny nonsense bullshit...

hmmm, nope, must have been someone else then, bogan's don't really do the whole dance thing too well, can mosh most excellently though Ah I see what you meant now, bang on too I reckon. Like all the people getting the latest phones/cars/bikes etc, always ask what was wrong with your old one, it's old is the standard response, sure buying new makes jobs, but you only need more jobs cos everyone wants to buy new! from what I've heard about the oil thing, the experts said it was a bad idea, but the greedy said the risk was ok, one guy chartered his own copter to gtfo the same day it happend iirc. And the greedy are just bludgers who have found an opportunity.