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Thread: Motorbikes could run on air says Indian researcher

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    Motorbikes could run on air says Indian researcher

    According to research undertaken by the SMS Institute of Technology in Lucknow, India, motorcycles powered by a compressed air engine could cut emissions in developing countries by more than half.

    Researcher Bharat Raj Singh discussed the prototype engine, which uses a compressed air tank to power a turbine. If we can cut down total pollution in developing countries 50 to 60 percent, that may be a major quantity which can definitely reduce global warming, adding Compressed air tanks can be recharged with pumps running off solar or other renewable energy, making them a cheaper, eco-friendly alternative to hybrid electric vehicles.

    The prototype engine can run a bike at speed of up to 50mph for 30 minutes. It works by pushing compressed air into the turbine. As the air expands, it turns the turbine which powers the motorbike. The only waste product in the expanded air. The major challenge, according to Singh, is to develop a high-pressure tank to boost the running time of the bike to six hours enough to travel for 150 miles before swopping tanks.
    http://www.motobke.co.uk

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    no way it can reduce global warming. Humans have such a small contribution already, that something like this will have no noticeable impact whatsoever..

    That takes nothing away from the fact that this is a great development!
    Life is just too damn short for if's and maybe's..

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    And the air would be compressed how?

    Without creating any pollution?
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 13,000 posts...........
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    If you can power your compressor from electricity generated from a renewable source hydro/wind/tidal/solar then you could be in business. Surely easier and more efficient to use that power to charge the battery on your electric bike though?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bungbung View Post
    If you can power your compressor from electricity generated from a renewable source hydro/wind/tidal/solar then you could be in business. Surely easier and more efficient to use that power to charge the battery on your electric bike though?
    from a user point of view, but pnuematic bikes wouldn't use any battery chemicals cutting productions costs and environmental impact.

    I read about the development of an earlier model which had pretty atrocious acceleration and top speed, though it looks like they have vastly improved them, interesting!
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    Is that "Breaking Wind"?

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    Indian car manufacturer Tata (seriously...) have done a lot of work in this area

    Here is an interesting exerpt http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/...-mdis-air-cars

    ...Tata Motors' vice-president for engineering systems S Ravishankar apparently told (media )that the company's efforts to add air-powered cars to its fleet are hung up by range limitations:

    "Air is not a fuel, it is just an energy carrier. So a tank full of air does not have the same energy as a tank full of CNG. Any vehicle using only compressed air to run would face problems of range."

    When asked whether this means that "the 'Air Car' project off?," Ravishankar declined to comment. Instead, Ravishankar added that excessive cooling of the air car's pneumatic engine is also presenting a challenge.

    ...analysis of the thermodynamics of MDI's AirPod concluded that the minicar is not energy efficient relative to electric vehicles, and unlikely to deliver on its promised 200-kilometer-plus range.


    This article { http://environmentalresearchweb.org/...lief-syst.html } agrees and has a downloadable thermodynamics spreadsheet for you to test your bias


    In a motorcycle, if the compressed air tank were significantly lighter than the equivalent energy store of batteries then it may be viable

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    Here's the flip side:
    http://complexitymetric.blogspot.com...matic-car.html

    Purely compressed air cars are much much much more simple than electric or hybrid cars. That means they can be much much much lighter. Ultimately, it is the weight of a vehicle that most determines its energy demand.

    It is easier to build high pressure tanks (we know and we have the materials), than it is to build batteries. The best batteries we have today use rare earth materials, our access to which does not scale with projected demands. Batteries are heavy. Batteries have limited life-spans. The best accept fewer than 500 charges. That is less than two years of nightly recharges! Batteries are super expensive. Each Tessla sports car has six thousand eight hundred laptop sized batteries that must be configured within a complex and expensive refrigerated enclosure with sophisticated charging and optimization control computers. Who pays for your knew batteries after two years? Where are they disposed? What is the ecological cost of mining lithium from mile high strip mines in Bolivia, of disposal and recycling, of carrying the weight of batteries around?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrodingers cat View Post
    Here's the flip side:
    http://complexitymetric.blogspot.com...matic-car.html

    Purely compressed air cars are much much much more simple than electric or hybrid cars. That means they can be much much much lighter. Ultimately, it is the weight of a vehicle that most determines its energy demand.

    It is easier to build high pressure tanks (we know and we have the materials), than it is to build batteries. The best batteries we have today use rare earth materials, our access to which does not scale with projected demands. Batteries are heavy. Batteries have limited life-spans. The best accept fewer than 500 charges. That is less than two years of nightly recharges! Batteries are super expensive. Each Tessla sports car has six thousand eight hundred laptop sized batteries that must be configured within a complex and expensive refrigerated enclosure with sophisticated charging and optimization control computers. Who pays for your knew batteries after two years? Where are they disposed? What is the ecological cost of mining lithium from mile high strip mines in Bolivia, of disposal and recycling, of carrying the weight of batteries around?
    Well viable battery vehicles have been made, they are expensive, but if air stuff is so simple, where is it?
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    Dear Bogan,
    please disengage your 'rapid reply reflex' and read the first post I made and its links. The time spent doing so will be beneficial. It is possible you will learn some stuff. Or not.

    Air vehicles are better described as 'lacking complexity', the problems to make them viable are not necessarily simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrodingers cat View Post
    Dear Bogan,
    please disengage your 'rapid reply reflex' and read the first post I made and its links. The time spent doing so will be beneficial. It is possible you will learn some stuff. Or not.

    Air vehicles are better described as 'lacking complexity', the problems to make them viable are not necessarily simple.
    Dear Poisoned Cat Guy, the point I was making is that the problems to make them viable have not been overcome yet, who is to say that if these problems are to be overcome large amounts of complexity may need to be added, chemical catalysts to enable denser air storage springs to mind.

    Did I take long enough to reply that time?
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

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    More time thinking rocket scientist fella. Boundless optimism will not change the laws of physics, or in this case thermodynamics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrodingers cat View Post
    More time thinking rocket scientist fella. Boundless optimism will not change the laws of physics, or in this case thermodynamics.
    whats your point, I can't even tell whether you're for or against air powered vehicles? intelligent debate requires points and facts to backup these points...
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

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    I hope the lid is firmly nailed down on me before we have to ride shit like that!
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    Bogan, my point is that I notice that you often jump on hair-brained half assed ideas without doing much in the way of research. An unfounded belief in the power of the old #8 wire solution doesn't cut it.
    I'm neither for nor against air power - ambivilent if you must - but I am interested in understanding the engineering. Pros and Cons

    What what I've read about it and known for the last ten years, air power isn't going to be the magic bullet. Its an interesting diversion at best.
    Likewise fuel cell technology - I wish it would be a viable answer but I don't think it is.


    Anyway - when you suggest chemical catalysts to enable denser air storage springs to mind. I am reminded of the quote:

    "Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

    That is all.

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