Motorbikes could “run on air” says Indian researcher

[schrodingers cat]

Bogan, my point is that I notice that you often jump on hair-brained half asses ideas without doing much in the way of research. An unfounded belief in the power of the ole #8 wire solution doesn't cut it.
I'm neither for nor against air power - ambivilent if you must - but I am interested in understanding the engineering. Pros and Cons

What what I've read about it and known for the last ten years, air power isn't going to be the magic bullet. Its an interesting diversion at best.
Likewise fuel cell technology - I wish it would be a viable answer but I don't think it is.


Anyway - when you suggest chemical catalysts to enable denser air storage springs to mind. I am reminded of the quote:

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."


That is all

[bogan]

Bogan, my point is that I notice yhat you often jump on hair-brained half asses ideas without doing much in the way of research. An unfounded belief in the power of the ole #8 wire solution doesn't cut it.

So this (below) counts as jumping on half assed ideas does it? rather thought it was the opposite myself.

Well viable battery vehicles have been made, they are expensive, but if air stuff is so simple, where is it?

Perhaps you have some pent-up rage against my optimism? also, if you ever feel I have not done enough research, please post some relevant stuff to prove me wrong.

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

oh the irony

[schrodingers cat]

Did you read the links I posted about the Indian manufacturer championing this technology?
The French manufacturer MDI has produced air cars as have others. http://www.gizmag.com/go/3523/

THe mechanics are simple (not complex) however the efficiency doesn't stack up and therefore, outside of niche applications, these vehicles aren't commercially viable as a mainstream transportation solution.

I'm sorry I can't solve this one for you.


All of the low hanging fruit has been picked. We have measured all of the easy to measure stuff. We have stored and organized all of the easy to measure, store and organize measurements. We have built all of the equipment that that is easy to build. Even most of the stuff that is hard to build. We are increasingly, as a species, up against a complexity wall that keeps us from progress in almost every field of human endeavor.

[bogan]

Did you read the links I posted about the Indian manufacturer championing this technology?
The French manufacturer MDI has produced air cars as have others. http://www.gizmag.com/go/3523/

THe mechanics are simple (not complex) however the efficiency doesn't stack up and therefore, outside of niche applications, these vehicles aren't commercially viable as a mainstream transportation solution.

I'm sorry I can't solve this one for you.

you still seem to be under the illusion that I think air cars are the way to go, I have no idea where you got that from as I posted the opposite.

All of the low hanging fruit has been picked. We have measured all of the easy to measure stuff. We have stored and organized all of the easy to measure, store and organize measurements. We have built all of the equipment that that is easy to build. Even most of the stuff that is hard to build. We are increasingly, as a species, up against a complexity wall that keeps us from progress in almost every field of human endeavor.

yeh, but now we have ladders

[schrodingers cat]

yeh, but now we have ladders

Made presumably from super compressed dense air formed from a chamical interaction not yet discovered with the aid of our ladder

[bogan]

Made presumably from super compressed dense air formed from a chamical interaction not yet discovered with the aid of our ladder

wow, kitty really wants a wee scrap tonight doesn't he. You're just lucky our internet is capped otherwise I'd lolcat the shit out of ya

[Urano]

there was a similar project related to a car, the "eolo", years ago.
it doesn't work.

simply, the main problem encountered was that the air as expands cools down too.
after few minutes the whole engine is completely frozen, and the car stops.
on the other hand you cannot "block" the cooling because in this way you'd stop the expansion that drives the engine.

it's about ten years and nobody found a solution, and i actually think there is no one.

[Urano]

....................

[Expert]

Sounds like a load of hot air to me.

[pc220]

Sounds like a load of hot air to me.

you may have just discovered the solution.

[schrodingers cat]

there was a similar project related to a car, the "eolo", years ago.
it doesn't work.

simply, the main problem encountered was that the air as expands cools down too.
after few minutes the whole engine is completely frozen, and the car stops.
on the other hand you cannot "block" the cooling because in this way you'd stop the expansion that drives the engine.

it's about ten years and nobody found a solution, and i actually think there is no one.

Correct. There is no known way to circumvent the laws of Thermodynamics. To get the performance required you need greater pressure (too much heat loss compressing) and to get the range required you need greater volume = weight requiring more perfomance.

It would appear that they are trying to get around the issue of the air lines freezing by filtering (ie dry air) and using manifolds with multiple pressure vessels.

In a small low perfomance vehicle it is possible to get around these issues but as you scale up you encounter the laws of deminishing returns

Entropy is a bitch.

For a commuter motorcycle however it may be a possibility. Less than 165kg with rider and upper cruising speed of 70kph then maybe. It would be cheap to produce.
The hordes of 2 stroke 50cc scooters smoking around cities would be an imediate target

[reemit]

Could get a clean burning fuel (meths), heat up some water to boiling point with it in a pressure vessel, push the superheated water vapour through a switched valve piston assembly. The oscillating piston movement could transfer to a small flywheel via a crank, big belt drive to the back wheel yr cooking with er. ... gas? maybe I should apply for a patent, call it the 'POS water vapour velocepede'.

[reemit]

.................

[schrodingers cat]

Stirling Engine anyone?
Not much in the way of throttle response but maybe drive a generator, temporary storage buffer of large capacitors and and a hub motor and you may be onto something.

Actually, I'm facinated by rotary stirling engines.

[Urano]

Could get a clean burning fuel (meths), heat up some water to boiling point with it in...

stated that you have to burn something, at this point it's simpler to use the methane to drive a simple 4t engine...
same exhaust, less stages where you could lose efficiency into...