Corner braking - should I do it or not?

[CookMySock]

You should be cornering at a speed that if braking is necessary it can be done safely.

Agree completely, but even the Mighty Katman will have had a surprise mid-corner re-think? Hmmm? Once?

Steve

[doc]

Next time your riding. Try putting more weight on the inside grip, can help with the clenching on the seat. Sometimes

[cowpoos]

You've done the right thing. As has been mentioned, you need the weight off the front wheel, so look out of the corner, crack a little throttle on, and feel the fear and do it anyway.

You can either use all of your traction cornering, or all of it braking, but if you are going to use both then you only get 50/50, so you have to examine your situation and make you own call. If you use all your traction and time to brake, then you had better hope you can stop in the distance you have at hand, because once you are out of room it's way too late to initiate a turn.

Also your bikes' front suspension and steering geometry is much happier if it's not 90% loaded, hence the need to roll a trickle of throttle on to put the C of G backwards slightly.

What you should ignore on any forum, is people who believe their own opinion is the one true truth, and everyone else is wrong. Collect all opinions, understand, filter for your own truth... but you already know this.

Steve

Don't post if you don't know what your talking about....

[Lurch]

In the end, if you HAVE to brake in a corner then so be it. Try to avoid having to but sometimes you screw up and you HAVE to. If you're on a track then sure lean harder and apply throttle progressively, on the road when the surface is shit house at best sometimes this isn't realistic, especially for a 'newbie'.

Braking mid corner should be light on the front and back and preferably together. Gentle rear brake or 'trailing' will lengthen the wheel base of a sport bike and can be used carefully on corner entry with good results..

[Goblin]

An expensive and painful lesson I learnt when I was a noobie was not to suddenly shut the throttle off mid corner. Although I didnt hit the car, I did fall off. Ouch!
As has been said here, look where you want to go and lean further. You'll be surprised how far you actually can lean a bike over.

[R-Soul]

Another aspect to be considered. When I was doing the Advanced rider Training day, one of the instructors was telling us about "tread walking", and that when you go around a corner, the natural tendency is for the corner itself to slow you down when you lean into it (i.e. without using brakes, because it is using kinetic energy in deforming the tyre itself in a corner). Well, he may not have explained it like ths, but this was the way I understood it.

Later that day at Jennian corner, I was in too hot, and consciously held myself away from the brakes and leant over harder- and it was surprising how much speed could be scrubbed off by treadwalking. After that I was into that corner a lot faster with my new knowledge.

Now I am not saying that you should go into corners faster. I am saying that you may not need as much braking as you think before leaning, since leaning itself already does quite a job of braking for you.

[slofox]

Despite what some would have us believe, there is always the odd moment when you need to lose speed in a corner. I have had sheep run out from the side of the road, a car come the other way on my side of the road, a massive pot-hole turn up on my line, and various other scenarios. It pays to have a strategy ready to use in such unforeseen circumstances.

Trail braking - when you keep some positive drive on with the throttle but apply the rear brake against that drive - is a very useful tool to have and is not that hard to do - I think I discovered it some 40 years ago riding through the port hills above Christchurch - probably by accident IIRC...

My first reaction in a corner if I have to lose speed for some reason, is to just back off the throttle a little. This seems to tip the bike into the corner enough to help. I also make more positive use of counter-steering nowadays - it seems to work better on the gixxer than it ever did on the SV - no idea why this should be - maybe just my imagination. Or it maybe the shorter wheelbase of the gixxer reacts more to the input - I dunno.

I would only use the brakes as a last resort - trail braking or no.

As has been pointed out by other posters, the best place to lose speed is before the corner, not in it...having said that, most of the time I get into a corner and end up thinking "w'shit, I could gone through here much harder without any drama". Maybe that is why I am still going after 42 years of it...

[Spearfish]

twist of the wrist II and the DVD are full of info once you get past the two main characters piss poor acting. LoL

Its all a head game, and fighting those "S Rs"

[auvicua]

Thanks for all the great advices! They may just save my life one day......

[george formby]

Well done on remembering what you were taught & managing to apply it when you had to. That is half the battle, using your knowledge when you have a "moment" rather than letting untrained instincts dominate. Having to brake / slow mid corner will always provoke a quick cheek clench but if your smooth, confident & brake appropriately a modern bike will usually forgive you. Practice, practice, practice to build your confidence & skills. Your controlling the bike & each little situation requires you to make the right decisions & maintain that control to go where you want i.e. out of harms way. So read the books, watch the DVD's & get out their. Have fun.

[Metastable]

There are many different ways to approach this whole scenario. I think the idea of you practicing is probably the best way to go. Get yourself into a controlled situation where you either:
- go to the track
- find an empty business park or nice road where you have checked the corner(s)

Then start to play with things. Here is what I think.

1 - you CAN brake into and in the middle of a corner, but you have to be smooth... no hamfisting allowed.
2 - depending on your bike, tires, etc... your bike might want to stand up, but you can also keep counter steering so that it doesn't.
3 - reading Twist of the Wrist is a good idea.
4 - there are various definitions, but trail braking TO ME it means being on the brakes when entering the corner.... you go from A LOT of brake while you are fairly upright to very little brake as you reach the apex.... regardless of front or back, but the back are just adding extra confusion to a tough situation IMO.

Now, I know you are not a pro, but let me play devils advocate a little. How do you think the pros do it? How late do they apply their brakes for any given corner?
Answer: As long as they have to. It could be before the apex, to the apex or even after the apex (although something out of the norm is going on in that last case).

The quickest way to turn a motorcycle is to actually trail brake and then gently starting to apply throttle. And of course things willl feel smoother too, if you start to tip it in while on the brakes, as opposed to getting on them mid corner. However, this technique is complete overkill for the street.... but it is something you should still learn!

So, for street riding, yes you want to try to do most of your braking while vertical. HOWEVER, don't just NOT USE a tool that is at your disposal. Practice so that you can trail brake into a corner and/or grab some brakes mid corner.

Here is an example.... check at the 1:35 marker. The bike being filmed is me (I had no idea my friend was still there, I'm in the black leathers with red CBR) anyway I'm not 100% sure, but I probably grabbed a little bit of front brake there. It's kind of hard to see, but my closing speed on that S1000RR was pretty quick. I even let him go a bit further in front of the next corner, so that I could build momentum and pass him on the next corner exit. You can see it in HD to have a better look. Bottom line is GRAB AWAY, but before you start doing that... practice lots and get as much info as you can.... and ALWAYS look where you want to go.

[Metastable]

Here I should have just posted this up... found it after. The guy says what I'm trying to say in a much better and more concise manner. BTW, what he says is SPOT ON!

[Grasshopperus]

As 2wheeldrifter said read "A twist of the wrist part 2".

I can also recommend meeting some mentors to improve your skills, there are good courses on the North Shore (NASS) and Papakura (SASS) that cater for newbs like us. Pick whichever one is closer for you and go for it

Check the links on the calender http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/calendar.php for Wednesday's.

[Grasshopperus]

Oh, and good stuff for handling it

[Subike]

Braking in a corner, yeap I do it, have done for many years,
But I do agree that unless you know how your bike handles when you do this,
Unless you have had practice doing it,
Unless you understand the dynamics ,
Slow down till you do,
I agree whith the majority of what has been posted here about not braking in a corner or you riask a high side.
but have to put into the mix of following another bike into a corner and find you are closing that gap faster than you would like,
Not because you are going too fast for the corner, but the other rider, who you have been following at a reasonable pace, is one who although his bike can handle the speed , slows down way more than is needed.
So brakes on or run into him... no amount of leaning or countersterring will save you.
Im sure this will expand this discussion.
SO what do you guys recomend to do?
when following another bike into a corner at a sensibile pace,
and find he/she has dropped of way more speed than is needed to safley get around the corner.
And allowing for the recomendation of, "dont brake in a corner"
Interesting thoughts???