Justice?! Schapelle Corby

[Pixie]

I agree completely - and if she found that something was wrong she should have gone straight to the nearest cop/custom officer and surrendered the stuff. Mate when there's a possible death penalty involved you don't mess around.

And the reason she could not have been let off easily is that the case was world wide news so the judges would be setting a rather important legal precedent here.

And the kindly ,non-corrupt,policeman wouldn't assume she just got cold feet and charge her?

[Pixie]

[QUOTE=jazbug5]
However, I do have to agree that the attention she is getting is all about her being young, pretty and female. There are a lot of people in foreign jails around the world who no-one gives a rat's about, because they don't make for good TV.

QUOTE]
Lorrianne Cohen got a lot of publicity over the years ,and see was a ropy old junky tart

[Pixie]

INDONESIA (May 2005) - Schapelle Corby found guilty for importing 4.1 Kg of cannibis.
Sentenced to 20 years in prison.

NEW ZEALAND (March 2005) - Stephanie Baker found guilty for importing 6000 LSD tablets into NZ.
Sentenced to 2 years in prison with deportment to her homeland Canada after 4 months, where she will be placed under home detention to serve the remainder of her 2 year term.

Schapelle Corby - Pleads Innocent, not proven guilty. 20 Years (Jail).
Stephanie Baker - Pleads Guilty, Proven Guilty. 2 Years (Home Detention).

Personally, I like the strict laws in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore etc - problem is they need to have solid evidence and proof before applying them.

Is Schapelle Corby guilty? I'm on the fence!
Even though Corby had strong relationship ties to drug rings.

Innocent until PROVEN Guilty! (Thats Human Rights!!!)

As for "strict laws" in Indonesia,a doco crew found they could buy any illicit subustance/service they wanted within 5 minutes of exiting customs.

[Sutage]

To people who say its only a big story cus shes hot is bullshit, anyone who gets in trouble in those shithole countrys should be publicised, especially for crappy charges like marijuana, 20 years should be for rapists and murderers

[jazbug5]

To people who say its only a big story cus shes hot is bullshit, anyone who gets in trouble in those shithole countrys should be publicised, especially for crappy charges like marijuana, 20 years should be for rapists and murderers

By saying that 'anyone...who gets into trouble in those...countries should... be publicised', you are not really making a case for saying that it's untrue that that is the reason this case has received so much attention.
Basically, maybe they should- but they aren't. Bonus points for guessing why.

[Sutage]

Probably because shes innocent and have no proof that SHE put the drugs into her bag and were hers. If she was guilty as sin. ie finger prints on the bag then it wouldnt be as big a deal.. like the bali 9 arent in the papers anymore, because they are GUILTY, i dotn think she is
just put yourself or a friend/family member in her shoes, could happen to anyone/anytime and obviously it does

[Skyryder]

If baggage handlers are stuffing drugs into bags they are only going to go for unlocked bags. It takes about 5 seconds to open a zip a bung a bag in. To cut a lock or cable tie requires a tool that would in itself raise suspicion if a baggage handler was carrying it or caught using it on luggage, and takes longer to do. I agree - locking or cable tying your bag is only a deterrent.

But she didn't bother.

There is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed. She broke the law, wittingly or unwittingly, in a country where the punishment is known to be extreme. Those of you discussing it from the point of view of how terrible the sentence is are doing it from the perspective of your culture and values system.

Euroipean cultures raped and pillaged "Middle East", "Eastern", and "South East" Asia for 300 years. Huge social problems, particularly in China, "South East", Asia, and the Ducth East Indies were created by the Opium trade of the 19th Century. Why is everyone so surprised that the punishment for foreigners trafficking drugs in those areas are so punitive.

Big Dave: -She deserves sympathy for the effect it will have on her life, BUT she does not deserve any more sympathy than any other person carrying drugs into that area. The so-called Bali 9 are all unattractive and demonstrably gullible and stupid - where's the outpouring of grief for them? They are going to be put against a wall and shot.

She will survive her prison time. Family are "encouraged" to participate in "funding" her prison stay.

I put it to you all - She is only the object of Australasian pity because of Blow Job Lips, Big Tits, and legs that look good in a short skirt. From a purely humanitarian point of view, and that of a parent, I feel for her and her family. But this happens all the time, in many countries, to many people. I find it odd that she has been singled out for attention.

If you don't want it to happen to you and yours, stop going for "cheap" holidays and surfing trips in Indonesia. Their culture is different. Their justice system is different. Their views on the value of individual rights vs the good of society are different.

So that makes it right. Sorry Jim. Values are 'cross compartmentalised." By that I mean, there are values that other cultures have that are superior to our own and like wise there are values that our culture has that are superior to others. It is the nature of man to uphold those that they believe. In another word it is called patriotism. And yes it is true that societys authorities use, what in simple terms is called propaganda, to harness the masses support. Now before I am misjudged I am in no way saying that the Australian govenment used the media for this purpose but the fact that Howard got his governent involved gives some credence to my arguments. Big tits, good looks etc. SC has all the ingrediants for a media circus if I am permitted to use such a word.

This in no way changes the fact that she has been given twenty years (and with appeal may be longer) for what. For what you call 'unwittingly' breaking the law. You then continue and say that "there is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed."

I put it too you if this was your own child would you still have such and opinion.

Skyryder


PS The Bali nine were caught with drugs strapped to bodies going out. The analogy between the Bali nine and Corby only exists due to the relationship that ilegal drugs were found in both cases. The bali nine were caught as a result of an Australin tip off. Just seems bloody strange that the Indonesian police can not catch heroin going out but can catch 'leaf' coming.

[James Deuce]

So that makes it right. Sorry Jim. Values are 'cross compartmentalised." By that I mean, there are values that other cultures have that are superior to our own and like wise there are values that our culture has that are superior to others. It is the nature of man to uphold those that they believe. In another word it is called patriotism. And yes it is true that societys authorities use, what in simple terms is called propaganda, to harness the masses support. Now before I am misjudged I am in no way saying that the Australian govenment used the media for this purpose but the fact that Howard got his governent involved gives some credence to my arguments. Big tits, good looks etc. SC has all the ingrediants for a media circus if I am permitted to use such a word.

This in no way changes the fact that she has been given twenty years (and with appeal may be longer) for what. For what you call 'unwittingly' breaking the law. You then continue and say that "there is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed."

I put it too you if this was your own child would you still have such and opinion.

Skyryder


PS The Bali nine were caught with drugs strapped to bodies going out. The analogy between the Bali nine and Corby only exists due to the relationship that ilegal drugs were found in both cases. The bali nine were caught as a result of an Australin tip off. Just seems bloody strange that the Indonesian police can not catch heroin going out but can catch 'leaf' coming.

If it was my own child, as I have already said, I would have a vested interest. I care deeply and personally about my family, as Schapelle's do for her by all appearances. But I wouldn't expect my personal tragedy to become NZ's.

I'm sorry but you are utterly misguided if you think your value system is superior to anyone else's. Includung the Taliban. You're over simplifying cross-cultural communication interfaces to a huge degree, and values are most definitely not the same between cultures. What you call the nature of man is a reprehensible disregard for broader society in many cultures. Your frame of reference is yours and it comes from a completely different social, religious, and philosophical perspective than the Indonesian justice system.

For what it's worth, the more information that comes out, such as trying to stop the customs official from opening her boogie board bag, makes her look like she had something to hide.

[Biff]

Travelling to the USA for instance ,you are not allowed to lock your luggage.

I always lock my bags, even when I fly to or transit through the US. When transiting though (LAX) you do sometimes have to go through a security checkpoint where they ask you to unlock your bag in order for them to search it.

[matthewt]

I nearly shat my pants one time coming back into Singapore from Malaysia.

I'd been to the WSB round in Malaysia and brought 5 superbike t-shirts. One of the chief sponsers was Lucky Strike so I got given 5 free packets for each t-shirt. I just stuffed them (all 25!!!) in my backpack with the shirts and had completely forgotten about them until halfway through Singapore customs. Too late to ditch them. Lucky for me they never checked my bag. From memory the limit is 1 packet per person.

Hard to say what they would of done had they found them, at the least I'd of had my employment pass canceled and been flicked home.

[StoneChucker]

Bugger, just did a longish post in the "petition" thread, before seeing this one. Can't be bothered to do another.

[Skyryder]

If it was my own child, as I have already said, I would have a vested interest. I care deeply and personally about my family, as Schapelle's do for her by all appearances. But I wouldn't expect my personal tragedy to become NZ's.

I'm sorry but you are utterly misguided if you think your value system is superior to anyone else's. Includung the Taliban. You're over simplifying cross-cultural communication interfaces to a huge degree, and values are most definitely not the same between cultures. What you call the nature of man is a reprehensible disregard for broader society in many cultures. Your frame of reference is yours and it comes from a completely different social, religious, and philosophical perspective than the Indonesian justice system.

For what it's worth, the more information that comes out, such as trying to stop the customs official from opening her boogie board bag, makes her look like she had something to hide.

I am not talking about vested interests. I am talking about values. When you can apply the same 'values' to a stranger as you can to family, that is the acid test of compassion. I have children of about the same age as Corby.
My values in this would be no different if they were in her place but my invlovement would be. Therein lies the difference.

Not too sure about your comments that you 'would not expect your personal tragedy to become New Zealands.' Has there been some suggestion that Corbys parents 'expected their personal tragedy to become Australias.' If not can not see the relevance of your comment.

I have never stated that my value system is superior to anyone elses. It is true that I believe that our presumption of innocence is superior to that of guilt but in doing so, my frame of reference has nothing to do with it. If that is so then I would accept 'all' the values of our society without question.

I have no idea whether Corby is innocent or not. But the fact that the Indonesian justice system requires the victim to proove their innocent when, in this instance it would appear, that with the help of the Australian authorities, she was unable to do so, seems wrong. I make no apology for my position on this. It has been my experiance that when I am accused of over simplifying an arguement my opponent has no counter arguement. I will in your case make an exception to this so as not to go off in a tangents.

I am unaware of Corbys reluctance to open her bag to custom officials as is there right. On this I can only comment that when I refuse to open my bag to retail security personal, as is my right I get more than a little pissed off when I am asked "What do you have to hide."

It seems to me that you have a predisposition of guilt untill prooven innocence. Do you?


Skyryder


PS Nothing misguided about me. Straight as an arrow I am.

[StoneChucker]

For what it's worth, the more information that comes out, such as trying to stop the customs official from opening her boogie board bag, makes her look like she had something to hide.

I agree, What I have to say

[James Deuce]

It seems to me that you have a predisposition of guilt untill prooven innocence. Do you?

Not at all, but the French do, and they were the first modern European Republic.

You're assuming that every culture should presuppose innocence.

What I believe is that if you break the law in another country you should suffer the full weight of the sentence. It is not a question of compassion at all. What do you expect the International "community" to do about it? Compel Indonesia and France to release everyone from their penal systems because they're "wrong"?

There's only one way to "compel" a nation and that requires Military force. There's too much oil being produced in Indonesia to ever expect the cooperation of every country with the capability to conquer Indonesia to impose what you perceive to be "right" in this circumstance. You're still not trying view the situation from Indonesia's perspective. You can only apply your values in your own social milieu. You cannot enforce them on a different culture by proxy or invasion.

You've said a bunch of things that were not stated clearly in your original arguments. If you want a discussion fine; I'm not really that thrilled to be responding to a series of ambushes.

[StoneChucker]

I agree in essence with what Jim2 said.
But, I do believe that some cultures are more evolved than others. Why? I think the treatment of women in certain cultures is unconstitutional, in terms of global views/values. I think the treatment of animals in other cultures is barbaric and thus I can agree that the sentencing of certain crimes in Indonesia for example, is archaic and arrogant.

I don't have a problem with the sentence in terms of time. I agree here, that what a culture deems appropriate for a crime is up to that culture alone. We have to respect what they hold true, and abide by it should we wish to participate in said culture. I have a problem with the justice system, guilty until proven guilty. No matter what you say, that system is not fair and just. The system appears to run on autocratic, arrogant and corrupt foundations. And as for what happened in past western/middle eastern history is completely irrelevant imo, as Shappelle did not instigate or propogate those attrocities. However, you are right - it is infact quite relevant. It's good to make someone pay for what happened in the past isn't it!