The ACC saga - a new approach.

[onearmedbandit]

That would work with new riders. What about the thousands out there right now? The ones who've honed their habit/s and survived so far?

Insurance discounts for all riders who successfully complete an intense training course?

Yes Indeedy - there are people already working with ACC within the the Motorcycling community, I'm aware of three centres, the levy protests held up progression in my local area, but things are back on track.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

The undertone of any possible change is down to the individual to want to achieve change as well.

Maybe the decision needs to be taken away from the individual? I can't believe I'm possibly advocating that, but leaving change up to individuals is like leaving a eunich looking after a whorehouse, nothings going to happen.

[Katman]

I remember when I did my test back in 1990. It taught me nothing about riding. Now I realise it was just that, a test, but I had my road bike license before I properly understood how a road bike works.

Back 20 or 30 years ago it was possible to get away with having a motorcycle license with virtually zero riding knowledge or experience.

Todays roads are a totally different environment.

[bogan]

I agree with pretty much all suggestions in this thread. But if courses etc are voluntary, the majority of people who turn up will be safety conscious to begin with, and if it is mandatory then it will be seen as unfair because cagers get fuck all training too.

[Katman]

and if it is mandatory then it will be seen as unfair because cagers get fuck all training too.

Motorcyclists are used to unfairness. We've had cc restrictions in place for as long as I can remember that car drivers have never had.

The benefits of making riding courses mandatory for obtaining a motorcycle license will easily outweigh any degree of unfairness.

[Genestho]

Insurance discounts for all riders who successfully complete an intense training course?



Maybe the decision needs to be taken away from the individual? I can't believe I'm possibly advocating that, but leaving change up to individuals is like leaving a eunich looking after a whorehouse, nothings going to happen.

As an aside.... I think it a great start to have the Motorcycling communty being apart of decisions - made aware of the data and being apart of training advice and to be in a position to give good advice to the likes of ACC and NZ Police, far more pro active place to be for all parties.

Perhaps if the knowledge and available training extended forward to the general community, at a grass roots level, perhaps that would go a long way?

At the end of the day decisions will be made with, or without our input. Our input is valuable.

[Katman]

I believe an added step in the process of gaining a full license would be worth considering as well.

After the 250cc restriction a further period restricted to 600cc could be imposed.

[bogan]

Motorcyclists are used to unfairness. We've had cc restrictions in place for as long as I can remember that car drivers have never had.

The benefits of making riding courses mandatory for obtaining a motorcycle license will easily outweigh any degree of unfairness.

true that we are used to unfairness. The benefits/unfairness depend on how the courses are implemented, if its a $500 three day course then that would suck, as a lot of learner riders are poor students and other find it hard to get time off work. Though if its free I'd go just for even if it wasn't mandatory.

[bogan]

I believe an added step in the process of gaining a full license would be worth considering as well.

After the 250cc restriction a further period restricted to 600cc could be imposed.

Any amendment to the restriction has to address the horsepower instead of this ridiculous notion of cc. some 250s and most 600s have more power than my 647, the modern ones have double the power in fact.

[Katman]

true that we are used to unfairness. The benefits/unfairness depend on how the courses are implemented, if its a $500 three day course then that would suck, as a lot of learner riders are poor students and other find it hard to get time off work. Though if its free I'd go just for even if it wasn't mandatory.

We are likely to always face unfairness and there will be plenty of motorcyclists who will loath any further restrictions or regulations imposed upon them.

The reality is however, that if we don't take on the responsibility ourselves, of improving our standing within the road-using public then someone else is going to do it for us. I guarantee that we'll like their ideas a whole lot less than our own.

[onearmedbandit]

How about bike specific training? Ie if you want to ride a 1000cc bike legally you have to prove you can handle what a bike like that accelerates, brakes, and handles like. Same with big dual purpose bikes. Obviously not all bikes would need specific training, ie going from a GN250 to a SV650 for example. I remember in Japan (don't know if it is still current) that unless you could physically pick your bike up you couldn't be licensed for it. I'm not suggesting we adopt that, but maybe bike specific training will go a lot further. Lets face it, the latest crop (and even the earlier ones) of sportsbikes are getting to be quite extreme. Didn't a ZX10R come with a warning that it was for advanced riders only, only no one policed that.

[yachtie10]

I agree with most on here but apart from better training to get provisionsal there should be more steps
I personally think to be able to ride a bike of over 100HP on the rd there should be another set of rules
e.g. A set of professional training courses that have to be passed (and paid for by rider)
Rating by CC is absurd and im not even sure power to weight ratio is the correct way to go as a powerful but heavy bike is just as dangerous as a light one (if not more so)

[onearmedbandit]

I agree with most on here but apart from better training to get provisionsal there should be more steps
I personally think to be able to ride a bike of over 100HP on the rd there should be another set of rules
e.g. A set of professional training courses that have to be passed (and paid for by rider)
Rating by CC is absurd and im not even sure power to weight ratio is the correct way to go as a powerful but heavy bike is just as dangerous as a light one (if not more so)

It's hard picking that magic number though isn't it. Is a 98hp bike really that much safer or less likely to be involved in a crash than a 102hp bike?

[avgas]

The only way we will achieve that is by dramatically reducing the number of motorcycle accidents.

Or increasing them until they ban us. Then we wouldn't have to pay a dime

[yachtie10]

It's hard picking that magic number though isn't it. Is a 98hp bike really that much safer or less likely to be involved in a crash than a 102hp bike?

no it is easy as my bike is just under 100HP

[dogsnbikes]

Lots of valid points....

I still think the riding gear or lack of is the grassroot issue,and that riding gear should be as standard as wearing a setbelt in a car regardless of wether your a seasoned rider or a newbie.......Basic maintance is good everyone should understand it,it helps give you a better understanding of you bike (well at least it should do)

We as riders need to get the message across to fellow riders who we feel need to improve their skills,behaviour whatever,I don't have a problem with telling others that I ride with or see they need to invest in gear,top of the line gear is out off range of alot of peoples,but there is head to toe gear for everyones bugets

maintain their bike,back off on the throttle you have nothing too prove and so on....

Ive seen a Harley where the tanks mounting bolt was missing and the guys attitude was "oh yeah been meaning to sort that out" or the guy on the buell that only had one engine mounting bolt in place and the rear shock was out of a holden one tonne ute FFS

This is the type of culture we end up beating our heads against a brick wall over... you know that redneck black helmet gloves are for pussies I can ride really fast down the foxton strights type rider

so if you see a rider who needs help just help him (who cares if they have a german helmet,36" hi bars)you may have just giving some advice that could save a life or injury