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Thread: The ACC saga - a new approach.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogsnbikes View Post
    This is the type of culture we end up beating our heads against a brick wall over... you know that redneck black helmet gloves are for pussies I can ride really fast down the foxton strights type rider

    so if you see a rider who needs help just help him (who cares if they have a german helmet,36" hi bars)you may have just giving some advice that could save a life or injury
    Problem is, you can tell that type until you're blue in the face (or more likely, black and blue). Until they see it for themselves, or some law is passed....
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    Until they see it for themselves, or some law is passed....
    The beauty is though that if someone is told often enough that they act like a wanker, they'll usually eventually do something about changing the way they act.





    (Except me of course).

  3. #33
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    I have heard this put forward so many times, the we must change or die fix all philosophies. Actually cant bring myself to disagree with it, BUT (always a but) nobody seems to put forward how to create the change. Lots of this needs to change and that needs to change but no how.
    The current system we seem to favour is beatings until the lesson is learned eg speeding tickets, or just raise the bar, eg 250cc and raised age before you can attain a license. That explains all the mid forties males killing themselves on bikes.
    Its a bit like the drinking age, everyone thinks if we raise the drinking age all our problems will disappear overnight, after all we had no problems before they lowered it
    My solution (yes I have one that I think will work) is to "Motivate Change" As a bike rider I learned to ride by riding, talking to others and falling off. Went to a couple of track days and found a lot of what I had taught myself and heard from others was tripe (I have perfected falling off though).
    How to motivate change? Well in my experience money is a bloody good motivator. Graduated ACC fees dependent upon levels of training acquired? Insurance incentives for training? There are two quick ones. As for ATTGAT, you will never force people to be safe, get them to "think safe" and they will start to act safe.
    Either that or we can just continue with the beatings until the lesson is learned.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The beauty is though that if someone is told often enough that they act like a wanker, they'll usually eventually do something about changing the way they act.





    (Except me of course).
    Hope your right
    certainly better than passing a law requiring you to wear gear all the time. which no doubt NZ will someday (hopefully I wont be here when it gets that bad)

    One of the problems with such high targetted ACC levies is that people feel entitled to do what they want and be payed for if something bad happens. happens in the rest of our society except for road motorcyclists.
    --------------------------------------
    Knowledge is realizing that the street is one-way, wisdom is looking both directions anyway

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by That looks like fun View Post
    My solution (yes I have one that I think will work) is to "Motivate Change" As a bike rider I learned to ride by riding, talking to others and falling off. Went to a couple of track days and found a lot of what I had taught myself and heard from others was tripe (I have perfected falling off though).
    How to motivate change? Well in my experience money is a bloody good motivator. Graduated ACC fees dependent upon levels of training acquired? Insurance incentives for training? There are two quick ones. As for ATTGAT, you will never force people to be safe, get them to "think safe" and they will start to act safe.
    I agree with that, proper courses that have tests at the end (no pass, no reduction in levy). It won't force people to ride safe, but being properly educated is likely to make most think twice. The only problem I can spot is the money, discounts are unlikely to be huge (if we can convince tptb to give any at all) and training cost are likely to be pretty significant, doing a $300 course to save $50 bucks a year isn't a lot of motivation.
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

  6. #36
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    The first step should be to work out how to improve the basic handling skills course.

    We need to be sending learner motorcyclists out onto public roads with adequate skills to comfortably survive - not just with enough skills to barely be able to ride a motorcycle.

  7. #37
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    This thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...driving-school. has me wondering whether we should implement a similar approach to training motorcyclists as the Japanese have.

    Imagine if we turned out riders capable of even half that skill.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The first step should be to work out how to improve the basic handling skills course.

    We need to be sending learner motorcyclists out onto public roads with adequate skills to comfortably survive - not just with enough skills to barely be able to ride a motorcycle.
    agree with that, we actually did it on a step through clutchless/gearless fucking scooter, in a carpark. They may as well have had us ride a pushbike.
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

  9. #39
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    How about take the $200 ACC increase or whatever it was off of the rego, and make it a compulsory $500 addition on all motorcycle insurance policies two years from now. If you have an advanced training certificate no more than 5 years old, you don't have to pay for it. No, I don't advocate compulsory insurance. It won't capture everybody, but it might capture a few of the people with unregistered vehicles like off roaders?

    Or at least something along the lines of 'Get training and you don't pay the big ACC sub, but you don't have to, and thus you would'?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    The first step should be to work out how to improve the basic handling skills course.
    Maybe as the first part of a graduated training scheme, a life long journey into advanced riding techniques?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogan View Post
    I agree with pretty much all suggestions in this thread. But if courses etc are voluntary, the majority of people who turn up will be safety conscious to begin with, and if it is mandatory then it will be seen as unfair because cagers get fuck all training too.
    Most constructions sites today now have an induction course in place and they are mandatory.
    If you dont comply, you dont work on site.
    And its not just about your safety, its also about about the safety of others.

    Same rule on the road.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogan View Post
    I agree with pretty much all suggestions in this thread. But if courses etc are voluntary, the majority of people who turn up will be safety conscious to begin with, and if it is mandatory then it will be seen as unfair because cagers get fuck all training too.
    There's a lot of holes in the boat admittedly, so let us start by plugging the big ones first. Cagers are a risk that needs mitigating, but it's a lot easier for me personally to actively acknowledge and fix my own riding faults than grandma driving her Swift.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by imdying View Post
    There's a lot of holes in the boat admittedly, so let us start by plugging the big ones first. Cagers are a risk that needs mitigating, but it's a lot easier for me personally to actively acknowledge and fix my own riding faults than grandma driving her Swift.
    KM? Is that you? Same message, but the delivery 'works'...
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by imdying View Post
    There's a lot of holes in the boat admittedly, so let us start by plugging the big ones first. Cagers are a risk that needs mitigating, but it's a lot easier for me personally to actively acknowledge and fix my own riding faults than grandma driving her Swift.
    Exactly. Instead of focusing on the inability of others to see us, we should be focusing on our ability to see them.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    KM? Is that you? Same message, but the delivery 'works'...
    Hahahah, no no... but seriously, I could spend my entire life trying to fix up the standards of other peoples driving, but I'd be doomed to failure. What I can do though, is fix my own shitty habits, and if everybody did that (Tui?), the first bit would be moot anyway! Win win

    And a big dollar carrot as an incentive would make sure that I didn't procrastinate on the matter.

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