Something has to be done...

[MikeL]

... about these crazy Asian drivers (I know it's been discussed before, and apologies to Marmoot and anyone else who thinks it's racist to bring the subject up) but I almost got collected yet again at a roundabout today by a young guy who drove straight through without so much as a glance to his right. This sort of thing has happened so often that usually I make allowances, but in this case he fooled me by slowing down almost to a stop before he entered the roundabout, then charged ahead as if he had a green light. I slammed on the brakes, skidded (it was wet) and came within a hair's breadth of losing control and going down.


I was a bit shaken (to put it mildly) and so it only occurred to me later that the obvious response is to pursue the offender, wait until he stops at the next lights, and then kick all his door panels in. When it happens again tomorrow I'll know what to do...

[Andrew]

Sounds like you should be teaching something else aswell as English at work.

I know what it feels like, I and I dare say a lot more bikers have had very similar experiences.

Clearly its a problem, but how can you begin to solve this problem without it looking racist?

[Kickaha]

And what about all the times you've been cut off,pushed off the road etc by crazy non Asian drivers.

Picking on one ethnic group is a bit like the people who pick on all Motorcyclists because of the actions of one or two or several riders.

Last time I rode in Auckland i was run into the gutter by a Samoan so they're all crap drivers to,and I better not forget the old Caucasian fool who stopped in front of me at the green light which meant I got rear ended on the way home yesterday,so all old guys are crap drivers to and what about the woman who backed into the work ute in the carpark,obviously women shouldn't be allowed licences either.

Of course I don't ever make mistakes and my driving is always 100% perfect.

[MikeL]

Originally posted by Kickaha

Picking on one ethnic group is a bit like the people who pick on all Motorcyclists because of the actions of one or two or several riders.

See what I mean about being unable to raise this issue without being accused of racism?

If repeated observations over a period of time indicate that more Asian drivers fail to give way at roundabouts than any other group, is that a fact or an opinion? I'm not saying that every Asian driver will do the same, or that no other group of drivers will show the same behaviour. To me it is a simple, statistical reality. Just like statistics about Maori imprisonment rates or any other issue where there are differences among racial or socio-economic groups. You can argue about the accuracy of the data (perhaps I'm not typical - perhaps the combined observations of others will prove me wrong), and if I use these conclusions as a weapon to attack particular groups or individuals for political purposes or to justify a personal dislike of them then you can call me racist. But to deny the statistical reality because it may offend people is not just political correctness taken to extremes, it's also stupid because it prevents any possibility of solving the problem.

And BTW I'm not anti-Asian - I teach them everyday, I get on well with them, I like them, I can talk to them in their own language and I know the problems they have in this country. None of this changes the fact that as a group, statistically, there is a problem. Now I would like some suggestions as to what can be done about it.

[Motu]

I work outside a roundabout,which I have to get involved with at least a dozen times a day,we also see several accidents a day.My abservations are conclusive - come down with a clip board and do your own - I'm sorry,but Mike will be proved correct.

[merv]

I've been travelling on the job the last two weeks spending the first week covering Auckland and Whangarei. From what you guys have been saying I was expecting to see crazy Asians everywhere. However, fighting our way round the motorway system I could get a very good look in next to stationary traffic around spaghetti junction and I was surprised at the low percentage of Asian drivers on the road. I saw a few walking the streets but have you guys frightened a lot of them off the road already?

Week just gone I was down Tauranga way and was surprised at the traffic congestion on the Tauranga Harbour bridge. Has the population boomed with Aucklanders escaping down there? Again can't say I saw too many Asian drivers.

[mangell6]

MikeL,

You should have worded your message along these lines . .

"Why is that I have a higher number of incidents and near misses with asian drivers than with any other driver? To date I have had no incidents with non-asian drivers. Do I have a big sign on me that says ignore me??"

Any Mike, I would have thought that you would have learnt by know that as these drivers have a thing for you that you would be driving more defensively.

Remember that generalisations is what the Government does when trying to cover something up or deflecting attention and generalisations always get you the reaction that you got.

Always remember that being on the road is and odds game like lotto. There are a lot of odd people who are on the road and odds are that one of them will do something stupid/illegal and it could be you.

Mike

[Motu]

Well Merv,you are right - you seldom see Asian drivers on the open road or motorways...they drive around city streets - roundabouts and intersections is where you will find them,dithering and making poor decisions.So will Samoans,Indians,woman and old farts.But get out that clip board and spend a day at a big intersection,publish your results on the net and end all this racial slander.

[Coldkiwi]

mike, i would've thought your job might be a good place to start a bit of problem solving. I can only imagine how hard it must be for a young person to move toa foriegn country and then try to learn the language and get along. If i was a foriegn student here, I'd probably do what they do and search out people of similar ilk ratehr than get immersed in local knowledge and customs.

what I'm saying is many of the asian drivers (lets ignore all the other idiots on the roads for a second) probably don't appreciate what a stir their driving habits are causing. if someone told them clearly that it is very very rude and dangerous to dither along in a lane not indicating while you look for a park i'd say a lot of them would do something about their habit in the interests oif being polite (as most of them are).

Perhaps its just a matter of some choice eductaion at the right stage for teh foriegn students coming in? I dunno what you do about mom and pop from China though. They may be too set in their ways?

[Lou Girardin]

Her'es any observation based on 2 years driver testing.
Many Asian drivers are unpredictable, they learn to drive by rote and when the unexpected happens they cannot cope. They also have poor situational awareness, they really only look ahead and tend to control their speed mainly with the brakes instead of accelerator.
Koreans drive like Italians.
Most middle Eastern drivers have a real problem with speed control. But then, if you spent years expecting a laser guided bomb up your date you'd speed too.
South Africans didn't seem to have any particular traits.
As much as I hate to say it after this weekend, but Pom's were the best drivers I've tested.
Lou

[MikeL]

CK, education is certainly part of the solution and those of us in a position to influence these people do our best. At the beginning of the year we show our students a video on pedestrian safety - how to cross the road (these are 18, 19, 20-year olds) because traffic flows, speeds etc are so different here compared to their home cities. And we strongly discourage them from buying a car. But we can't prevent them from driving if they want to, and by international convention they can drive for up to a year on their national licence. Driving tests in many countries are a lot less rigorous (although more expensive) than in N.Z. so this, combined with usually very limited driving experience (confined to cities like Hong Kong or Shanghai with slow average speeds, lots of traffic lights and (I believe) few roundabouts compared to N.Z., means that they are totally unprepared for our conditions. As Lou pointed out, their education generally emphasizes rote learning rather than problem-solving and adaptability. All in all it's not surprising that they come to grief.

[Car Dodger]

I find most fuggers know perfectly well how to drive, but because ther've been doing for so long or they're always going up and down the same old roads, they seem to get fuggin lazy and make dumb mistakes. Usually a simple silly mistake can end up fatel for a motorcyclist. I always ride with both eyes wide open.

[brockhaus]

Hi,
I'm not from New Zealand and have never been there.
I drove Cars in the Southern Africa (Namibia, Botswana, South Africa...) and in lots of European countries. (Right and left lane traffic)

I don't know how the Koreans drive their cars but I know the Italians and Germans very well (Neighbour countries).
Each Country has it's own driving culture and there are differences. One should try to drive like the local inhabitants - but that's not always easy. Italians seem to drive uncoordinated and they like to ignore the traffic lights but the traffic flows surprisingly well - in Italy.

They also could not prevent me from driving a car and motorcycle in South Africa but it was a big change to drive on the other side of the road and it happened three times or so that I drove on the wrong side of the road.

It's the best to "ride with both eyes wide open" as Car Dodger mentioned.

Hope I won't be a big problem driving a motorcycle in New Zealand in January/February

Drive safely,
cu, Marcus

[Coldkiwi]

Originally posted by MikeL
At the beginning of the year we show our students a video on pedestrian safety - how to cross the road (these are 18, 19, 20-year olds) because traffic flows, speeds etc are so different here compared to their home cities

I thought that might be the case but I'm glad to hear that someone is trying to do something about their safety. The inner city pedestrian habits are bad generally but the Asian students seem particularly unaware of the dangers they face (andrew will vouch for this!). Not only do they not seem to look over their shoulder when jay walking (I've had fun educating a few of them that this is a good idea by revving the bike as I pass them less than a meter behind!) but they also seem generally unaware of traffic right in front of them or about to turn into their path. A friend of mine saw an asian girl nearly get knocked down by a fire truck (with sirens/lights/horn- the works) turning into shortland St as she crossed the road.

Is there no school in Asia that teaches the kids 'look both ways before crossing the street?'. I'm really amazed.

[bikerboy]

While I'm certainly guilty of the "bloody asian diriver" attitude at times I must also so in their defence or any foreign drivers here, say that NZ'er are awful drivers.

When I first came here I thought there was no drivers training as people drove so badly. What I needed to do to get a license here was a joke. People drive far too fast for following distances, signal only during or after turning. Run yellow/red lights. If someone slows in your lane, swerve without looking or signaling into other lane as quickly as possible. See some one try to merge, race ahead to cut them off, and on and on.....

The worst part of it is I have now become immune to these habits and even adopted many of them so as to keep with the flow.
Perhaps they view us as too agressive and we view them as too cautious, when really we should all try someplace in between.