250 production racing.

[SS90]

It costs just about as much to make a 250cc inline four as a 1000cc inline four because its the same amount of components. So they have to cut lots of corners and I would say manufacturers margins are extremely thin. Little wonder that market sector only really survives in markets where there are graduated licensing laws and LOTs of customers.
You really also have to wonder about the wisdom of racing what are in most instances commuter bikes, they are not made for racing and in the long or even short term they are fragile. SV650s are a case in point.
There already is an entry level class of affordable proper racing bikes, 125cc. Great class, great racing and it teaches the riders and crew more skills than just riding.

You make some valid points there Robert, but I have to disagree with you doubts on the wisdom of racing these bikes.

I am personally a huge fan of 125GP racing, and agree that it is an exciting class, entry level or otherwise, however, the Importers don't give a brass razoo about these machines, as 1) they don't import them 2) Racers NEVER buy their parts from the dealers (much MUCH cheaper to buy from Aussie, or wherever), and as such, they don't care.

And, like it or not, as nice as they look flying down the track, VERV VERY few spectators can tell the difference between a Honda, Yamaha, or Aprilia 125Gp bike (well, the Aprilia is the one that doesn't finish, so that's easy)

Simple.

However, they DO sell new 4 stroke twin cylinder bikes.

That is what the sport needs to do to prosper (in my opinion), create some BRAND IDENTITY with the machines, that way the bike buying public will be able to relate their purchase with competitive success......like they did in the 70's and 80's (the ninties less so)

What won on Sunday, the public purchased on Monday.

I concur that these machines are quite low spec, and there is not a hope in hell the latest 4 stroke twin would have even qualified the midfield of the old two stoke 250 production days, however, that was then, this is now. The world has changed and 250 production has alsol.

Just think back to the guys racing in the early eighties....... My god, 18 inch rims with tyres the width of a mouses pupic hair, frames made from macaroni elbows, 2 valve air cooled 4 stroke engines,Tyres with cool names like "Pirelli GORDONS"......... hang on a minute.....that was great racing!

It's just that we are all spoilt now with forks made from "unobtainium" ,rebound this compression that,radial nipples..... TYRE WARMERS.......(what the ?)......blah blah blah

Yup, the production 250 bikes of today are "low spec", then there is more onus on the rider.

Simple.

I am VERY excited at the opportunities this will open for the new breed of riders, not only the new class, but, if managed well, I believe that industry support would have a better chance of improving if people where actually racing what the importers where selling!

[Robert Taylor]

You make some valid points there Robert, but I have to disagree with you doubts on the wisdom of racing these bikes.

I am personally a huge fan of 125GP racing, and agree that it is an exciting class, entry level or otherwise, however, the Importers don't give a brass razoo about these machines, as 1) they don't import them 2) Racers NEVER buy their parts from the dealers (much MUCH cheaper to buy from Aussie, or wherever), and as such, they don't care.

And, like it or not, as nice as they look flying down the track, VERV VERY few spectators can tell the difference between a Honda, Yamaha, or Aprilia 125Gp bike (well, the Aprilia is the one that doesn't finish, so that's easy)

Simple.

However, they DO sell new 4 stroke twin cylinder bikes.

That is what the sport needs to do to prosper (in my opinion), create some BRAND IDENTITY with the machines, that way the bike buying public will be able to relate their purchase with competitive success......like they did in the 70's and 80's (the ninties less so)

What won on Sunday, the public purchased on Monday.

I concur that these machines are quite low spec, and there is not a hope in hell the latest 4 stroke twin would have even qualified the midfield of the old two stoke 250 production days, however, that was then, this is now. The world has changed and 250 production has alsol.

Just think back to the guys racing in the early eighties....... My god, 18 inch rims with tyres the width of a mouses pupic hair, frames made from macaroni elbows, 2 valve air cooled 4 stroke engines,Tyres with cool names like "Pirelli GORDONS"......... hang on a minute.....that was great racing!

It's just that we are all spoilt now with forks made from "unobtainium" ,rebound this compression that,radial nipples..... TYRE WARMERS.......(what the ?)......blah blah blah

Yup, the production 250 bikes of today are "low spec", then there is more onus on the rider.

Simple.

I am VERY excited at the opportunities this will open for the new breed of riders, not only the new class, but, if managed well, I believe that industry support would have a better chance of improving if people where actually racing what the importers where selling!

Yes indeed those are also very valid points, especially re manufacturer / distributor involvement.
What in part I was also trying to intimate is that we are in danger of having too many classes with a risk of diluting other fields. No easy answer..

[puddytat]

So for a newbie racer what would it involve....


Buy bike 250cc

Strip unwanted accessories off, indicators etc

Pay membership

Buy tire warmers

Have licence - (any licence or has to be full?)

Attend race meets - go hard

Have spare parts and spare tires

Another person as pit crew

Is there a checklist that can be posted up??

Would it be like the drags at Meremere? anyone can rock on up pay fee to race and pose, pass scrutineering and away ya go?

Nah ,its not like the drags....
You'll need to be a member of a club,usually the track closest to you....
You'll also need to join MNZ & pay a fee to race there &,get your log book..
it will enable you to race at other tracks as well
Rules look like warmers wont/may not, be allowed.
You dont need any road license at all.
Theres more on the proposed? regulation on the MNZ site www.mnz.co.nz

Im keen...

[SS90]

Yes indeed those are also very valid points, especially re manufacturer / distributor involvement.
What in part I was also trying to intimate is that we are in danger of having too many classes with a risk of diluting other fields. No easy answer..

Yea, that really is a good point, a small country like NZ does sadly have to concede that we simply don't have the population to either supply full fields nor full spectator seats....... I always thought that when supermotard started getting some attention in NZ, the Large number of "off road" enthusiasts would be converted, and make supermotard the next big thing......

We did get a few conversions (James Smith for example), but I had anticipated much more.

I do remember the Halcion days of 250 Production of old, just think of how many guys started in that class (Slight,Crafar,Stroud,Clee,....and dozens more) I believe the only reason that the 250 production class thrived early on (eighties) was because of the competition between Yamaha and Suzuki, and to a lesser extent Honda and Kawasaki, in those days it seems the Brand was more important.

It would be very interesting if the importer somehow found a renewed drive in that area.... Like Ford Vs Holden for example........

It's not the public that decide how they are marketed to.....it's the Advertising companies that make the decisions where and how.

Teen stars (the sort of riders you would expect to race these machines) are significantly more appealing than someone in their 40's..........

A teenager being the face of a product that appeals to a bigger section of the market ( Teenagers and sub 25's) stands a much much better chance of capturing the money spending publics attention.

Andrew Stroud, sponsored by "Brother" (that is not an insult by the way,more power too him.....), but how many people below the age of 25 buy printers and faxes?

This "target demographic" buys Playstations,cell phones,clothes and other "consumables"

I believe that Companies who want to sell these products are HIGHLY more likely to spend some marketing dollars on a medium that appeals to this generation/demographic.

Printers and faxes for the 40 "somethings"........

Cell Phones and playstations for the sub 25's......

[oyster]

In the south, "entry level" is the training class, run 3 times a meeting exclusively for the intro of new riders in a well supervised, non race situation including coaching. After that is Young Junior Road Race, Miniture Road Race and Streetstock. The 250 twin fourstroke is part of Streetstock and has a good chance of introducing an aternative to the trusty but aging RG150.
Robert, 125GP is not "entry level" It is a complex and very expensive class that benefits the riders who have completed a thorough apprenticeship in Streetstock. Once a rider has mastered all the riding and technical matters of Streetstock, they do very well when they enter 125GP.

[FROSTY:Me]

I think Oyster has hit the nail smack bang on the head here.
SS150 id a FANTASTIC entry level class with one problem
The bikes are now 10 years old.
The idea with SS250 or 250 production was to supercede the ageing fleet. BUT ALSO possibly be quick enough to not get lapped in the F3 races

[puddytat]

Re the proposed rules for this class, I see that you can change fork springs & oil, but theres no mention of emulators....so I assume that they aint allowed?

[chaos rider]

well im ready and waiting for oct 4th amcc round one just sending off for my licence tommorow and waiting for the entry forms to be posted up on the amcc page

[puddytat]

Im all set for the 4th Oct. too...MCC's Rnd 1 of King of Ruapuna.
BRING IT ON!!!